========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 28, Topic 13 Message 1 Wed Feb 12, 1992 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 20:47 EST Maybe Im thinking wrong but even if you bought 150ns, 100ns or better Roms it wont help a bit since the Roms themselves have no way of letting the System know the data is ready. The DTACK delay for the ROMS is done in hardware. You would think RAM Based TOS on an SST or Turbo 030 with be faster than the old slow ROM Speeds. Im using 150ns EPROMS in an embedded processor system I designed at work and it uses a 68000 12 Mhz model. No problems reading the EPROMS. Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 2 Wed Feb 12, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 20:59 EST Well Mike, the trick is "what" the roms hold for code, and how it's used. The OS run times aren't the gating factor in alot of the screen related activities...which the roms contain the support for...instead it's the speed of the video ram that is the gating factor. The code is typically getting run darn fast, fast enough just about. It's the actual screen accesses that are dictating the overall speed of operations, so increasing rom code speed by 2 or 4 only results in a fraction of that in overall speed....hence 10-15% going from 200ns non-burst roms to 80ns nibble-mode burst-mode Fast ram. Just one of life's little bumps. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 3 Thu Feb 27, 1992 J.FOURNIER [John] at 22:50 EST The Extensible Control Panel will show TT and ST ram amounts as well as total RAM. -John ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 4 Thu Feb 27, 1992 F.GORON [Frank] at 23:48 EST John E. You said that a bug in the CodeHead Ramdisk will allow it to run only on a TT with 4meg each of ST & TT ram? Would this explain why when I run 24BIT.PRG for TT compatibility with some other programs I'll get the "Not enough memory...,or top-end memory..." message? Frank ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 5 Fri Feb 28, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:55 EST Frank, I've never examined the internal workings of 24BIT.PRG, but the "top-end memory" message in CodeRam will occur if there is memory in use at the top end of memory. CodeRam needs to install at the top end of memory in order to be reset-proof. If a sufficient amount of memory is not available at the top, CodeRam will not be able to install without doing a reset in the process (as other reset-proof RAM disks do). If 24BIT.PRG installs at the top of memory, this situation will exist. You should still be able to reset the computer and install CodeRam. Or you should be able to install it in TT RAM. BTW, I believe the CodeRam bug only requires 4 MB (no more, no less) of _ST_ RAM, but there can be any amount of TT RAM. John ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 6 Mon Mar 02, 1992 M.STUEVE [Marlo] at 00:46 EST I finally found the program to copy the TT TOS into TT RAM. It gives a noticeable speed increase. I've uploaded it to the library as TTROMRAM.ARC. The following are some Quick Index numbers: Quick TT Quick TT Before w/ROMRAM alone w/ROMRAM ------ -------- -------- -------- TOS Text 108 119 254 264 TOS String 120 147 558 586 TOS Scroll 54 54 55 55 GEM Dialog 704 947 1594 1843 These numbers are useful for comparison only. The program and doc-file are entirely in German, but there's no real trick to using it. It will use 512K of TT-RAM in exchange for the extra speed. Marlo Stueve 5th Crusade Software ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 7 Tue Mar 10, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 14:29 EST Marlo: Besides not knowing if it is commercial, we can't get it to work. we have tried though. Do you want to give us some indication how it does so if we do post it, we can add a readme file? It is not that we don't appreciate the upload. We have been bouncing this from sysop to sysop thinking we must of lost it as we can't figure out how and what it does. Want to give us some insight? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 8 Wed Mar 11, 1992 M.STUEVE [Marlo] at 00:47 EST Jim, With 20 Megs of REAL memory, who needs VIRTUAL memory? Darlah, Here's the procedure I used to get it to work: 1. Run Quick Index 2. Copy down the numbers 3. Put ROMRAM.PRG in the auto folder (close to first). 4. Reboot. 5. Run Quick Index 6. Note the differences 7. Have a lovely beverage ROMRAM.PRG can also be run from the desktop. I don't know what it would do if you didn't have FASTRAM though. Not working would be the desired behavior. I have it in the AUTO folder second (after only TT2STHI.PRG which just changes resolutions). The word Shareware is in the 5th line of the doc file. Jim (again), There's a difference between Virtual Memory and putting TOS in TTRAM. One is really easy, the other isn't. If I wanted Virtual Memory (really, really wanted it) maybe I'd pay $199. I don't, so $199 is too much. If the program I uploaded cost $199, I would buy a book on the 68030, write my own version of ROMRAM.PRG, and go into business. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 9 Fri Mar 13, 1992 R.NOAK at 01:55 EST If you don't believe Charles, Nathan and Darlah, I am just a regular user. I would gladly pay $199 for 128 megs of virtual memory. I own an 8 meg TT030 and am getting close to running out of memory on some of the DTP projects I'm working on. That $199 is a lot cheaper than a new hard drive. Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 10 Fri Mar 13, 1992 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 12:26 EST The piracy discussion is now in its new home in Category 18 Topic 7. Please continue that discussion there. As always, any time delay messages will be moved as we find them. Thanks. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 11 Sat Mar 14, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:44 EST Gnox, Virtual memory is a technique which uses hard disk memory to expand your RAM memory. Software tricks are used (together with special powers of the latest microprocessors) to swap chunks of memory between RAM and disk. This will fool a program into thinking that it is running on a machine with a lot more RAM than actually exists (like maybe 128 meg). With fast hard drives, efficient caching, and clever programming, some nice results can be achieved. Virtual memory requires at least a 68030 or 80386 microprocessor. John P.S. It's that "clever programming" that some people don't think is worth more than $.xx per K. I guess part of "clever programming" is to pad the size of the program so that people will perceive it as valuable. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 12 Sat Mar 14, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 17:11 EST If a program that small can offer Virtual Memory.. imagine what Atari could do with TOS..Hmm Does anyone know of a program that allows for Virtual Machine capabilities on the Atari TT? I'd _really_ love to get this particular feature!! Are you chubs listening.. I have the money too. Imagine, emulation and software/OS testing becomes bomb-less.. ahh heaven. Both Virtual Machine and Virtual Memory support began with the MC68010 chip. But the MC68020 added full 32bit bus; the 68030 is simply a fancy packaging of the 68020 with an on chip PMMU. ref. 68000, 68010, 68020 Primer: pp252-261 and 680x0 Programming by Example: pp1-27. So as I see it, Atari should have had some sort of VMem and VMach system sometime ago. But since Apple itself was late in doing so, we can be patient. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 13 Sat Mar 14, 1992 ATARIUSER [John King T.] at 18:11 EST John E., That's the ticket, no more "tight code" from CodeHead. Start producing "sloppy code" then charge by the byte. You could make millions... :~} John King Tarpinian ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 14 Sun Mar 15, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 14:01 EST John, The value of a short program is not unlike the computer repairman who when questioned about a $50.00 charge for a "easy" repair rewrote the itemized bill $0.50 To turn screw $49.50 For knowing what screw to turn >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 15 Sun Mar 15, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 15:20 EST ;-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 16 Sat Mar 21, 1992 WORDFLAIR [Robert] at 04:20 EST There are a couple companies in Germany selling Virtual Memory software for the TT. Digishop sells one, I believe. I hear they work pretty well. Simple stuff - an AUTO program and a CPX to configure it. -- Robert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 17 Sat Mar 21, 1992 STACE [Mark] at 11:05 EST Gee...maybe Gadgets by Small's SST will be able to use this Virtual Memory software?? :-) Mark ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 18 Sat Mar 21, 1992 G.RICHARDSO1 [George] at 21:59 EST Why use Virtually no Memory software when you've got the real thing? :-) And room for all you can afford, up to 72 megabytes of contiguous fastram? Better have deep pockets though. George Richardson Merlin Group, Inc. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 19 Sun Mar 22, 1992 R.NOAK at 01:14 EST Well, that's the point George. A Syquest cart is a lot cheaper than adding 44 megs of SIMMs. ;-) The real thing might be faster, but it would take a lot of time to add up to the difference in price. Let's see, the latest Mac Warehouse catalog (I know you can get them cheaper, this is just for comparison) lists 4 meg, 80ns SIMMs for $199. You'd need 11 of those to get to 44 meg. That's $2189! In the same catalog, a PLI Syquest cart goes for $99 (expensive, but this is just a comparison). That is over a $2000 savings! I think I'll go for the Virtual Memory (VM). Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 20 Sun Mar 22, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:40 EST Maxon sells VM software called "Outside" for the TT that is quite good. I'm really suprised noone has imported these items to the US/Canada. The thing to remember is that such SW wedges directly into the MMU tables, and the off the shelf stuff expects a TT table, not an 030 ST table...there is a difference. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 21 Sun Mar 22, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 13:55 EST I think we'll wait until Atari themselves impelment this. Hey maybe we can see SCSI to FRAM VM finally! Go ahead, stop me from dreaming ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 22 Mon Mar 23, 1992 G.RICHARDSO1 [George] at 07:25 EST My understanding is that the SST tables duplicate the TT tables for compatibility. I haven't kept up on this though, so it may have changed. Dave built all kinds of strange stuff into the SST software that's geared towards some really unique and fabulous software that he has outside programmers working on for him. It may have affected the MMU tables. Anyway, it never hurts to try, at least if everything is backed up! :-) George Richardson Merlin Group, Inc. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 23 Fri Mar 27, 1992 A.LEWIS at 03:14 EST I was in our only Atari store yesterday and saw a TT030 for the first time. I'm seriously considering buying one, but I have some questions that the store wasn't able to answer. Specifically about the ST and Fast RAM. I think I understand the ST RAM is all that software written before the TT will be able to use, but what I would like to know is what parts of the machine are running at 16MHZ and 32MHZ. Is the Fast RAM clocked at 32MHZ and if so, how many wait states? I was under the impression that the only part of the TT running at 32MHZ was the processors, not sure about the 882, and 32K of cache memory. Like they do the cache on 386/486 machines. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 24 Fri Mar 27, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:29 EST A.LEWIS, ST RAM is for some video functions (the TT takes care of these, but it needs ST RAM to do it) Most software will work in either TT or ST RAM, including the "old" stuff. The CPU (68030) runs at 32 mhz. The TT RAM will feed it a bit faster than the ST RAM, so thinks will run faster from TT RAM, however things also run faster from the ST RAM. Based on my observations you get about 80% of the increased speed of TT RAM in ST RAM. In other words, ST RAM is almost as fast as TT RAM. Don't try to compair Itle chip machines and the Motarola chip machines. The numbers just don't mean the same thing. Wait states and mhz numbers do not mean the same! If you want to compair speed, pick out an application you need speed in and pick programs for each platform. Run the applications and see which feels right to you. Be sure to run the IBM program in Windows. Oh yea .. observe how much trouble setting up each program is on each machine. One hint. You can add to the basic 2 meg of ST RAM several ways. You can add TT RAM with out adding any additional ST RAM. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 25 Sat Apr 11, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 16:52 EDT I have just had my Atari Dealer replace my 4 meg TT RAM board "Atari" with the GE-Soft board populated with 8 SIMMS, 70NS RAM. The computer is not reliable now. I have problems booting up, many program crash considerably more offten than before and I occassionally will get random characters in pop up menus. Does anyone know of some TT RAM Testing software I could run that would test the TT RAM board and the the memory! I believe my dealer might have short changed me and given me junky or cheap and dirty RAM. This is after the board was proven too work, "it was returned to the Board supplier", bit never with the my Dealer's installed RAM. Any suggestions! ...Bert P.S. I have never had any trouble with my original Atari TT RAM or the TT for that matter! I had it for over a year running quite reliably without any trouble. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 26 Sun Apr 12, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 15:45 EDT If you have TOS 3.06 (I think you don't) then the Atari will test both the ST RAM and TT RAM at boot-up or coldboot. Also, make sure you have the proper DRAM chips installed on the board. I remember that GEsoft recommendsyou use page mode Toshiba DRAMs.. the specs are somewhere in this category or their own category. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 27 Sun Apr 12, 1992 M.ANGIER [Mike Angier] at 15:57 EDT Bert: I have been using the GE soft board for a couple of months now and have had no problems. I am using 1Mb 70ns Toshiba SIMMS. The docs list the following brands / sizes as unreliable: all SIEMENS, all MITSUBISHI, 1MB SAMSUNG, and 1MB NEC. Get the dealer to open the machine and show you the SIMMS. If they are not toshiba (some reports say that 1MB HYUNDAI work too) get them replaced. Also verify that the dealer set the jumpers j0, j1, and j2 to the proper positions for the amount of ram you are using. Later, Mike ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 28 Sun Apr 12, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 20:11 EDT Thanks, Mike! I will advise my dealer ASAP. The TT030 TOS version I have is 3.01 and I have been after my dealer for the 3.06 ROM but have had little success. The risk I took of purchasing the TT so soon is starting to raise it's ugly head. My dealer told me that I should sell this TT and buy a new TT030. He says that my machine is just one of those early versions that suffer from all types of problems. That is strange as I have used this TT for over a year without trouble. The only trouble I am having is the 1.44 Meg foppy and the TOS 3.06 upgrade. I would have thought that the people that invested in early TT030 products would get the first upgrades but that is not the case. The new TT030 are shipping with 1.44Meg support and with TOS 3.06. I will wait a little longer for the next upgrade, too bad Atari, but it does not pay to buy early. If the support was there I wouldn't wait next time on new product releases. I hope to get this memory problem fixed soon. I have been running the machine without the board by using 24BIT.PRG and locking out the board. pretty bad since I paid $1050.00 for the 8 Meg upgrade! ...Bert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 30 Wed Apr 15, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:49 EDT I have two GE Soft boards in use running 70 NS 4 Meg Simms from Samsung. Add them to the list. :-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 31 Wed Apr 15, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 22:55 EDT Yeah Nathan, but you gave us and your tech guy the willies for a short while by purchasing the RAM before you got the blurb from us or GE Soft!!! So much for wild abandon - I'm glad Mario is around as a steadying influence on you, or has Darlah mellowed your impetuous nature yet? :-) I need to hear from you as soon as your arrangements are in place re the colour printer options. Things are shaping up rather rapidly at the moment. The trip to Toronto was *very* fruitful. Check your EMail tonite. Thanks Nathan. Keith ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 32 Fri Apr 17, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 12:57 EDT Nathan, do you have the Simm Module number so that I can advise my dealer. He sold me 8 Meg's with the GE board but now he says he has to up tha price because the Toshiba Simms are 75 to 105 dollars Canadian. Thanks Bert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 33 Mon Apr 20, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:56 EDT Bert...I purchased the SIMMS from a Computer Wholesaler around the corner from me, Comtronic Computer Centre 416 479-8336. This is not a retail outlet. I am also a Value Added Reseller. :-) I believe the model # was S101 but that could have been the stores code and I'm not taking the box apart to read the SIMM.:- ) Hope this helps though. Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 34 Tue Apr 21, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 21:41 EDT Thanks for the info Nathan, looks as though my dealer is going to replace my memory with real and WORKING, Toshiba SIMS and also give me a $80.00 credit! I think they have decided that my $10,000.00 of purchases to date was enough for a little product support. ...Bert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 35 Tue Apr 21, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 21:47 EDT Sounds like a wise decision to me. :-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 36 Tue Apr 21, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:12 EDT Seimens is building drams off an IBM license, and IBM uses slightly different timing in thier designs...just enough to be trouble for highspeed, push the envelope stuff. Plugged into an 8Mhz Mac Plus you'd never know the difference. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 37 Thu Apr 23, 1992 P.CARMACK [Patrick] at 02:23 EDT Can anybody tell me where to get the GE Soft ram board? I live in Austin and there's NO Atari support(even though Atari lists 3 "dealers" here). I want to stay away from Rio if possible. Pat ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 38 Thu Apr 23, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:42 EDT Patrick...GE Soft is imported from Germany by Keith Brooks and Bruce Klassen of New Horizons. K.BROOKS1 is Keiths email address. Tell him Nathan says hi. :- ) I have already bought 3 boards from them without a snag. Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 39 Fri Apr 24, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 02:30 EDT Thanks for the plug Nathan! See my EMail tonite. Patrick....call us or leave me EMail Friday. The next batch is ready to go.....if ya wants in on this order, ya needs to call! Keith ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 41 Sun Apr 26, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 17:04 EDT I cooked up my own ROMTORAM program that I'll upload for TT users to try out. I noticed that the floppy disks don't seem to work well after the TOS is in fast ram, apparently the timing gets thrown off by the extra speed. Steve Marlo, did that happen with your ROMRAM program? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 42 Mon Apr 27, 1992 M.STUEVE [Marlo] at 03:25 EDT I'm happy to hear that everyone else will now have access to this type of utility (ROMRAM). (By the way, it's been on the atari.archive as rh_11 (or something to that effect) for a while). I've had no problems with ROMRAM.PRG. None. I almost never use floppies though. I have little reason to. If floppies worked poorly with ROMRAM, I probably wouldn't know. Ask Jeff (Magnum Technologies). He'd be more likely to be able to help you. Or call me up and/or e-mail me and I'll send ROMRAM to you. I think it even tells how it works in the DOC file. (I read German poorly). Marlo Stueve <--- Note the name 5th Crusade Software PS. I think the ROMRAM I uploaded only works with TOS >= 3.00 && TOS <= 3.05. I'm not sure (I "read" it in the DOC file). ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 43 Mon Apr 27, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:15 EDT If you can Marlo, try the floppies while using ROMRAM and see if they behave. The one I've done only cares about an 030, it doesn't care which version of TOS it is....I'll let you beta test it before uploading it to the board. Please let me know about the floppies. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 44 Tue Apr 28, 1992 M.STUEVE [Marlo] at 23:18 EDT OK. I copied a disk full of files to a RAM disk, formatted the disk, and copied them all back. It worked perfectly. If you want me to do some more exhaustive tests, suggest them. I have had ROMRAM installed for few months now and never noticed anything wrong. I suspect it works correctly with floppies. Are you trying to ROMRAM TOS < 3.0? I don't know what the difference between 2.0x and 3.0x TOSs is, but since 3.0x is supposed to work on TTs, it makes sense to figure that if TOS uses timing loops for floppy access, those loops might be on of them. Just a guess. I'd be happy to beta-test for you. Marlo Stueve 5th Crusade Software ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 45 Wed Apr 29, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:17 EDT Probably just some timing loops not long enough in 2.06. I'll send it to you for a test. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 46 Thu May 07, 1992 MAG.SOFTWARE at 02:37 EDT ROMRAM doesn't seem to like TOS 3.06 (which I have). Upon boot-up, the computer freezes just before going to the desktop. I can't read a word of German, and haven't had the time to go through the code to see what the problem is. Jim, I'd really like to try out your program and see what success it can bring me. There are certain parts of TOS that are timing sensitive. Floppy routines are one. I'll have to dig into the PRG code as well as the TOS code to investigate it furthur. Jeffrey C. Davis CEO, Magnum Technologies (414)253-9966 ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 47 Fri May 08, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:28 EDT I've been up in Canada installing Turbo030s so I didn't get time to upload yet. I'll get the file out to you on Monday. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 48 Sun May 10, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 00:28 EDT I would like to warn people: Atari doesn't support the use of this program. Use it at your own risk. TOS ROMs are designed to be just that: ROMs. We take no responsibility for what may (or may not) happen if you run the TOS code from RAM. In other words.. You are on your own with this program. -- John Townsend, Atari Corp. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 49 Sat May 16, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 12:45 EDT I put the RAMROM program up in the library, has anyone tried it out? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 50 Sat May 16, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 20:04 EDT Hi Jim, saw it right away! I've been messin' with it since last nite (read: early this morning). I do see a difference in some places so far. I first ran it from the destop and noticed several prg's that didn't like that. Then put it early in the AUTO folder and am trying various ways of booting with it via Deskmanager. So far this seems pretty cool. Thanks for the UL. I'd be happy to know what you are finding with it. Best, Stephen ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 51 Sun May 17, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 13:12 EDT It seems to behave well on Tos 2.06 on a Mega ST with an 030 board. I use it as a ram tester...if s ingle bit dies in a ram system your OS resides in you can't help but notice ;-) I implimnted it differently and made the floppy problems go away, so it should be well behaved when run from the auto folder. Let me know what programs dislike it. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 52 Sun May 17, 1992 S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM] at 15:19 EDT Jim, In TT med rez, Touch-Up has problems here and there with it. Mostly noticed by bombs back to the desktop in the flash mode. It happens when going to work on the zoom level where you can change each pixel of the image. It will sometimes zoom in and out a time or two before the crash....sometimes only once. There was another I notice but can't recall it right now...will note it more carefully next time. Generally though, it seems pretty durn well behaved. On the TT, combined with Warp-9, playin' with a command line prg., it sure does make the lists fly by. %^) Seems to speed up certain moves in the word processors too, and also there is a definite boost in the basic desktop moves like going to Hotwire, Maxifile, Acc's, etc. Pretty sweet, thanks again. S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 53 Sun May 17, 1992 MAG.SOFTWARE at 20:32 EDT Jim, I tried it on my TT with TOS 3.06 and QuickST v3.0 installed. I didn't get any increased speed for some reason. I'll play with it some more & let you know what turns up. Jeff ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 54 Tue May 19, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:31 EDT Jim, Thanks for RAMROMTT. I didn't download the version that you uploaded to the library, but the one you F-Mailed me did not have the TT RAM flags set. If this is the case with the one in the library, folks will have to set the "run in TT RAM" flag in order to notice any results. Otherwise, it will run in ST RAM and will actually run a little _slower_. (Use MaxiFile or PRGFLAGS.PRG to set it) With Warp 9 TT installed, there's not a very noticable difference. Using Quick Index 2.2, I found that all results were the same with and without RAMROMTT, except for the GEM dialog test. This test produced a 6.6% speed increase (451% to 481%) when using RAMROM. This was on a TT with 16meg of TT RAM and a high-res monitor. Perhaps the results are more dramatic for those not using Warp 9. Thanks again Jim...every little bit of speed helps. John ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 55 Tue May 19, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:10 EDT Yep, make sure the TT flags are set correctly, the eproms are faster than running from "ST" ram ;-) The OS functions that Warp9 replaces will DEFINITELY runs faster with Warp9 than stock, more efficient coding is far more affective than a little faster memory hardware ;-) But all the parts of the OS that are not replaced by Warp9 will see a 10-15% increase, so if you can afford to give up 500+K of ram, what the heck ;-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 56 Fri May 22, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 22:50 EDT Jim, I have tried it with some success. I will post my results a little later. Jim, would the results differ with my GE-Soft Page-Mode RAM rather than nibble mode RAM. My results on the GEM dialoge box are about 10% slower with my new memory even if my standard Applications such as PageStream, UltraScript, Touchup all seem to benefit from my new memory board. As some might remmember, my dealer tried to install some below grade RAM SIIMs and that was what all my trouble was. My Toshiba 70NS SIMMS are working just fine, and at what a price! My dealer credited me $80.00 for the exchange. Seems he could get the Toshibas cheeper than the 80NS labeled 70NS tested Memory SIMMS. I like my TT030 but I wished it had a 16K Cache to really improve my Memory performance. How about it Jim? Need a little RD money to get you motivated? ...Bert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 57 Sat May 23, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:39 EDT Sorry Bert, mechanically not possible to make a TT cache addon. Wish it were. I thought the GESoft ram was faster than normal ram, so you should get faster not slower results. Beats me? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 58 Thu Jul 02, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 19:54 EDT HI, I just got a 4 meg TT ram board from atari. (thru Carter Graphics) Could anyone tell me how to install this thing? Are there dip switches that must be set? If so, what are the settings for a board with 4 1 meg simms installed? I have the board in the computer (TOS 3.06) and there is no recognition of the extra ram when I boot up. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Gary Anderson (GA) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 59 Thu Jul 02, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 23:29 EDT Do you have 2 megs of ST ram or 4? Is it possible you installed the TT ram board in the ST ram board spot? I'm reachin. :-) 3.06 correctly identifies available RAM on bootup. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 60 Fri Jul 03, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:35 EDT Sounds funny, the board is "supposed" to just plug in...in the front left corner in front of the computer...and be seen by the OS. Beats me? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 61 Fri Jul 03, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 01:32 EDT I have 2 megs of ST ram and the TT ram is in the correct slot. Coul C C C C C C D D D D C C C A C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C the dip switches have anything to do with the problem. A friend told me that there are two that need to be set. A C C C C C C C C C? B D D D D D D D D D D D D D C C, but he didn't know which ones. GA ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 62 Fri Jul 03, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 01:44 EDT Gary, send it back. I racked my brain over this when I upgraded ours about a year ago. Nobody knew anything then either.:-) Luckily the dealer I bought it from was great about it! I actually did get the first board to work by tapping the top of the square chip but it quit a week later. The second board worked first try and is still working. Just ask if you can exchange it, they should swap it since it's defective. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 63 Fri Jul 03, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 07:10 EDT Gary, When I put in my 4 meg TT board in all I did was plug it in and run. It goes in on the left side (beside the floppy drive). The reason I know that is that was the only place it would fit. I had no problems with mine. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 64 Fri Jul 03, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:56 EDT I opened my TT to refresh my memory. :-) Yup, it only fits in that one spot. :- ) And yes, it should just load and play. I have not heard anything about dip switches. I will ask and post again. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 65 Fri Jul 03, 1992 M.PERDUE [Mario] at 21:10 EDT Gary, Just plug the board in and turn on your computer. The dip switches have nothing to do with memory configuration. If it doesn't work, you probably need a new board. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 66 Fri Jul 03, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 21:55 EDT I was over at Atari Canada this afternoon so I asked about the RAM boards. I was told basically the same as you read above. It IS plug and play. If it is not working, it's toast, replace it! Sorry for the bad news. Hope you can get it replaced ok though. Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 67 Mon Jul 06, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 23:03 EDT Thanks for all the help. I have tried everything I can think of... to no avail. I suppose I will just have to get this RAM board exchanged. Does it matter what type of simm chips is on it?? This one has 9 chip simms. Again thank you all very much. Gary Anderson ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 68 Wed Jul 08, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 00:31 EDT Gary.....hmmm....the Atari board doesn't use SIMM panels. This is strictly a desolder job if you want to upgrade your memory or buy the larger board. Please don't try to remove the 'SIMMs' you think you have!!! Strictly plug-n-play - no switches, no mumbo-jumbo. Take the board back to Carter. Keith Brooks New Horizon ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 69 Wed Jul 08, 1992 S.WINICK at 04:32 EDT Actually, the latest version of the TT-RAM board DOES come with socketed SIMMs and dip switches. The early ones were also socketed with jumpers. Then they switched to the soldered in boards -- arghh! Hopefully the socketed version will become the standard now. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 70 Thu Jul 09, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 11:38 EDT Yes, the Atari board always "could have" used SIMMs simply by assembling it with SIMM sockets soldered in, rather than SIPP rams (SIMMs with little pins soldered to the edge connector) being soldered in. Seems now a days they are using SIMM sockets. Has anyone tried to figure out what the difference is between the 4Meg and 16Meg boards? It might be a simple matter to swap in 4 4Meg SIMMs if the other voodoo can be deciphered. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 71 Thu Jul 09, 1992 C.CASSADAY [Chris C.] at 21:52 EDT S.WINICK i.e socketed SIMMS in TTRAM modules So, it would seem that you could buy a four meg TT RAM board and then later purchase four 4 meg SIMMs and plug them in place of the one meg SIMMs, change a couple of DIP switches and whamo, you're operating with 16 megs of TT RAM. A correct assumption, or no? Chris C. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 72 Thu Jul 09, 1992 FIFTHCRUSADE at 23:49 EDT You might need a different logic chip for the (upgraded) board. It would be nice if someone could verify that the chips are identical in the 4 and 16 Meg versions. Ben White 5th Crusade Software ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 73 Sat Jul 11, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 21:10 EDT It works now!! Thank all of you for the help. I finally tracked down the problem. It seems that Carter sent the board with the jumpers set for 16 MEG. After a call to them and some rapid sketching I got the thing to work fine. The board says Atari D D D D D D"Atari Copyright 1991". Therefore, I assume it is an 'Atari boar C C It defi C C Cly D D D D D D D D D Dmost assuredly has SIMMS and the guy said that by using 4 MEG SIMMS it could hold 16 MEG and work fine as long as the jumpers C C C C Cwere set correctly. It currently has 4 1 MEG 9 chip SIMMS in it. He didn't say anything about requiring a diffeent logic chip, but then again I didn't ask him either. Thanks again. Gary Anderson ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 74 Sat Jul 11, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:43 EDT Gary, how about sharing those jumper settings with the rest of us. The price of 4Meg SIMMs is falling, seems like a nice upgrade path now that we know it's doable. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 75 Sun Jul 12, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 13:10 EDT Ok. To the best of my knowledge hear are the jumper settings for first the 4 meg and then the 16 meg configs. With the board installed in the TT and looking at it from the front of the machine, there are two rows of jumpers 5 on the bottom and 2 on A C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C1 B D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D. Ah B D D D For the 4 meg config the settings are: Bottom row--u,u,u,u,d: D D D D D D CTop row--u. (where d is down and u is up). For the 16 meg config: Bottom row--d,d,u,u,d: Top row--d. I hope that is explanatory enough, if not just let me know and I'll upload an iamger something :-). A C C C C C C C C C C Cma B Gary Anderson ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 76 Sun Jul 12, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 14:50 EDT Gary, Would you try that again? Your message got munged up. If your typing online don't use your arrow keys it leaves charactors in the message you can't see but we can.:-) If your planning on staying a while you might want to check out Aladdin. It takes a couple hours to get setup but after that you can do all your replying offline with a real editor.:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 77 Sun Jul 12, 1992 G.ANDERSON42 at 19:51 EDT Sorry for the garbled note. I have uploaded the jumper settings to library 21 (file #24870). The name of the file is TTJUMSET.LZH. This file contains the settings for the Atari TT ram board for the 4 and 16 meg memory configs. Again sorry about that. Gary Anderson ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 78 Mon Jul 13, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 02:26 EDT No Problem! Thanks for taking the time to upload it! I'm gonna download it for future reference. I may actually have enough someday to buy more RAM...:-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 79 Mon Aug 03, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 21:16 EDT If there is one, what's the general rule for loading programs and their data into TT-RAM? Has anyone experienced any problems with the GEsoft board? I've also heard claims that it's both faster and slower than the TT-RAM boards from Atari. Anyone know which one it is? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 80 Wed Aug 05, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 01:08 EDT Ed Krimen: There isn't any significant speed difference between the boards as they both use the same buss. The only real difference would be using different SIMM panels. The Atari board uses SIMM panels too but the maximum configuration is 26Megs with a 10Meg ST load and 16Meg TT RAM. The maximum GE Soft board load is 42Megs with 10Mb of ST and 32 of TT RAM. ******************************************************************** * TT/64 BOARDS ARE RELEASED !!! * ******************************************************************** YUP! The 64Mb boards are now being released by GE Soft. If you're a *POWER USER* bigtime, this is the one you want for serious CADD, DTP animation or just to expand your memory for more TSR's! Pricing on the new boards is $999.00 US Funds with delivery included and insurance but _does not_ include brokerage fees, Federal/State/Local levies or other fees which may apply. The TT/32 boards are still available at our regular pricing of $399 US with the same delivery and insurance, excluding brokerage etc as above. EMail to K.BROOKS1 or B.KLASSEN FAX to 604-271-1398 during normal business hours MST Phone is 604-225-1160 same hours 9-5pm MST Keith Brooks New Horizon Computer Systems Ltd. 280-11012 Macleod Trail South Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2J 6A5. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 81 Tue Aug 11, 1992 BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.] at 14:36 EDT Ed, I have yet to see some kind of document that outlines what the parameters are for using or not using TT ram. Basically, it seems to be a try it and see how the program reacts to it kind of thing. Some programs just love it, and take right off. Others start to exhibit problems, like poor printouts...or bombs. My best advice to you is to try it out, and see what happens! I prefer to use MaxiFile III for setting the flags, because it will do more than just the PRGs or TTPs. Programs like PageStream, that have executable modules, can also have the flags set for those modules by using MaxiFile III. regards, Bob Brodie ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 82 Sat Aug 15, 1992 B.HOGENDOORN at 17:41 EDT Bob, you can use PRGFLAGS.PRG on the none PRGs by changing the File name than running PRGFLAGS.PRG and then re-naming the executables to the original filename. I did that for all my PageStream Executables and with my new Quantum 120LPS drive, PageStream Loads in about 3 seconds. Mind you I have swapped my original 4Meg Atari TT RAM for a GE-Soft with 8Meg of TT Ram, that has helped give me a little more speed from my TT. By the way, my TT runs a lot cooler with the Quantum Hard drive installed, this may help for people considering the GE-Soft 64Meg Ram board they just released! My old Segate 50Meg drive is still running but in a PC Clone. ...Bert ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 83 Fri Oct 23, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 00:10 EDT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GE Soft & New Horizon Computer Systems Ltd. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ******* ******* ******** ******** TT/32 TT/64 TT/128 TT/256 ******* ******* ******** ******** We are very pleased to announce the availability of three new TT RAM expansion boards for *POWER USERS* - BIG TIME MEMORY - - Huge 24bit Colour DTP Documents - - DynaCADD Files In 3D ISO - - Sound Manipulation - - Graphics & Animation - - Monster Spreadsheets - - Think of the Possibilities - The TT/32 and TT/64 Expansion Boards can still be purchased unpopulated for US$429.00 and US$749.00 respectively insured, plus freight, brokerage fees and Customs Duty (if any). The new 128Meg and 256Meg Boards are custom orders, built on receipt of your order and payment in advance. At present, GE Soft is offering these boards fully populated only. Pricing is difficult to set with fluctuating international money markets. Current exchange rates on the Deutschmark would allow pricing as follows: TT/128 - Board & 128Mb of RAM using 16Meg SIMMs - US$ 7,999.00 TT/256 - Board & 256Mb of RAM using 16Meg SIMMs - US$15,749.00 *************************** SO TAKE THAT MAC QUADRAs!!! *************************** We can also offer populated TT/32 and TT/64 Boards for the following prices: Board Description RAM Type US$ Price Cdn$ Price ===== ========================= ========== ========= ========== TT/32 - Board & 4Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 629.00 $ 785.00 TT/32 - Board & 8Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 797.00 $ 995.00 TT/32 - Board & 16Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,179.00 $1,475.00 TT/32 - Board & 32Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,789.00 $2,275.00 TT/64 - Board & 4Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 899.00 $1,075.00 TT/64 - Board & 8Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $1,049.00 $1,295.00 TT/64 - Board & 16Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,449.00 $1,775.00 TT/64 - Board & 32Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $2,149.00 $2,665.00 TT/64 - Board & 64Mb of RAM using 16Meg SIMMs - *******CALL******* *********************************** Pricing on all the RAM Expansion Boards is subject to the whims of currency exchange which we cannot control. ORDERS TO: ************ New Horizon Computer Systems Ltd. #280, 11012 Macleod Trail South, Calgary, Alberta, CANADA T2W 3V3 Telephone: 403-225-1160 FAXsimile: 403-271-1398 GEnie EMail To: ***************** KBROOKS1 -or- BKLASSEN ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 84 Fri Oct 23, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:33 EDT Reformatted: We can also offer populated TT/32 and TT/64 Boards for the following prices: Board Description RAM Type US$ Price Cdn$ Price ===== ========================= ========== ========= ========== TT/32 - Board & 4Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 629.00 $ 785.00 TT/32 - Board & 8Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 797.00 $ 995.00 TT/32 - Board & 16Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,179.00 $1,475.00 TT/32 - Board & 32Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,789.00 $2,275.00 TT/64 - Board & 4Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $ 899.00 $1,075.00 TT/64 - Board & 8Mb of RAM using 1Meg SIMMs - $1,049.00 $1,295.00 TT/64 - Board & 16Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $1,449.00 $1,775.00 TT/64 - Board & 32Mb of RAM using 4Meg SIMMs - $2,149.00 $2,665.00 TT/64 - Board & 64Mb of RAM using 16Meg SIMMs >> Joe M << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 85 Fri Oct 23, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Blue Jays !!] at 08:30 EDT Thanks for reformatting those prices Joe. I was dying to read them and you saved me email to Keith ;-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 86 Sun Oct 25, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 17:34 EST Well, it all looked OK when I set the file up in Aladdin...... Thanks for fixin' it Joe! So much for the 'Tomahawk Chop' fellas. Great series. The Toronto Blue Jays may have won, but most of the players are American anyway. Sorta like having the days when all the players on the Blackhawks or the Red Wings or the Rangers were all Canadian players. It really isn't so nationalistic after all. The globe gets smaller as we sespeak.... On to tomorrow's vote..... Keith New Horizon ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 87 Mon Oct 26, 1992 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 18:46 EST Hey guys, the tomahawk chop is alive and well at Florida State University where it originated %^) Anybody know if the GCR will work on a TT030 with 4meg ST-4meg TT Ram and a 9089 color monitor (running in ST high resolution)? Hugs...Swampy >>>---GO NOLES!---->>> ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 88 Tue Oct 27, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 00:42 EST I had a GCR way back and it worked fine on the TT. Even used the Math Chip. The only problem is the FLoppy plug is on the opposite side of the computer. You either need a disk drive to plug it into or a longer cable. I think some TT's experience disk drive problems with the GCR but mine seemed to work OK. Might be because at the time I had one with the metal shielding inside. I believe Gadgets can tell you how to fix anything thats wrong. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 89 Fri Nov 06, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 10:47 EST In another Topic in this Cat(Topic 5, Message 63 Jun 29,1992), Jim Allen "timed the Atari 5.0x speed at loading software into TT ram versus ICD's SW...ICD's is a good 4-10 TIMES faster." I'm puzzled. I have a new TT with 10 Megs of ST ram. Most of my Apps take less than 2 seconds to load. (Fujitsu on SCSI using HDX 5). Will it take longer loading to TT ram(when prices come down again)? If not, what's a second or two among friends?(of course Calamus SL with it's modules is a bit of a slug and might could use a boost). Jack ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 90 Sat Nov 07, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:51 EST The TT ram isn't connected to the DMA port, data is _moved_ there by the CPU piece by piece. So how optimized _that_ SW is has a direct relation to how fast it is. ICD's SW is very optimized, and is much faster loading into TT ram. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 91 Fri Feb 05, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:50 EST This seems like the place for this. I am considering buying a TT. Any opinions on buying a minimally ram configured TT and adding the additional ram myself? The idea is to save $. I know it would void the warranty, but given my location on the face of the planet, am willing to take the chance. Thanks Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 92 Sat Feb 06, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:10 EST Ken, I'd recommend the 6Meg unit if your trying to save money. 4 Megs of TT RAM unless you have the SLM804 then you'll need the extra 2 Megs of ST RAM for Calamus. Otherwise your software will run faster from TT RAM. Not to mention installing the ST RAM later only requires removing one screw and opening the hard drive bay. The TT RAM is installed by taking the machine apart. Both are fairly easy though. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 93 Sat Feb 06, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:55 EST Ken, I don't have a good answer to your question, but I'm curious about exactly where you are on the planet ... Alaska maybe? (My 4/4 TT and I live in Sudbury, Ontario, which is plenty frozen enough right now!) gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 94 Sat Feb 06, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 09:04 EST Ken, I think you need to tell us what you plan to use your TT for and what printer you have or plan to have. Some uses require more RAM than others and some will need more ST RAM vs. TT RAM. For example if you are using an Atari laser you generally would want 4 meg of ST RAM. If you are using programs that can use TT RAM and need lots of RAM like most DTP programs you should opt for at least 4 meg of TT RAM. As for adding RAM yourself I would not consider it unless I got the GE board (Is that the right name?). The Boards supplied by Atari are special. Adding RAM to a TT is not a simple matter of adding chips and maybe cutting a trace and adding a jumper. You need a special chip. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 95 Sat Feb 06, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 13:08 EST Joe, Adding Atari RAM boards is easy. You just pop off the top and plug it in. IN the case of the ST RAM you only have to flip the hard drive cover back. Not hard at all. I guess if you tried to expand a 4 Meg board to 8 Megs you'd run into trouble but otherwise it's a plug and play deal. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 96 Sat Feb 06, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:55 EST REALM -- gnox -- >>Joe M << REALM - I was actually thinking of 4 megs ST and 4 megs TT. I do have the 804. I was just speculating I could get the most minimally configured machine, and then and RAM and HD on my own, saving some bucks. I haven't done pricing on this idea yet, but was curious if I was repeating somewone else's steps. I don't have any real qualms about taking the machine apart to install necessary items. Thanks also for mentioning the fact some software does not work on 2 page monitors. I remember reading that now. Guess it'll be color. :-) gnox - You got it!!! 35 miles north of the Arctic Circle, no roads to town. Bummer. Would like to quit government job and make money with Atari, but unless Alaska builds a road to me, will have to move to do it. >> Joe M << - DTP is one use I have in mind. I own SL, 1.09n, and have a used copy of Pagestream 2.2 coming. (A sister and husband have a 1 meg Atari and Pgs 1.8, so need to learn more about it. I am the family computer nut and "expert", whatever that means. :-) ) Also looking into the Data Stitch embroidery system, which uses a TT according to their ad info, although I have seen the system with a Mega STe installed. Materials for this is the reason for needing the road mentioned above. Have other ideas, but would require major relocation to accomplish. Is there a topic other than here that has had a discussion of ram boards? What would happen if you started with 4 & 4, then decided you needed more? New chips again, more chips to motherboard, or a GE board at this stage? Hmmmmm- guess my plan of long term investigation is going to be the smart way to go. :-) Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 97 Sun Feb 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:25 EST Ken, 8 Megs sounds pretty good to start out. The GE board is expandable with SIMMs. Personally I couldn't afford to pay for the expandability. The empty board costs more then Atari's 4Megs of TT RAM. Atari's board is also SIMMs now but I'm not sure what you would have to change to upgrade it or even if you can. Has a set of jumpers on it so it might just be a quick deal. I do know you can survive very nicely with 8megs unless your into heavy color DTP or large 3D Phoenix scenes. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 98 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 02:15 EST REALM, not into color DTP or 3D Phoenix scenes. Don't know anything about color DTP (wish I did) and have never seen any 3D Phoenix scenes. Might be a mistake on my part to see the 3D pics. :-) Started out just wanting more memory for my Mega 4, and was considering the SST board. Then found out would not work with Migraph had scanner, so that idea is out. Can't run SL with all my other "goodies" loaded. :-( So started looking into TT with more memory, but this is going to require more $. Looked at a TT while in lower 48, but didn't really like keyboard feel. Didn't like Mega feel either at first, so would probably be able to adjust. At the worst, could hook up IBM clone keyboard. Have noticed ads for TT's with 8 megs of ST ram. What effect does this have on the machine? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 99 Sun Feb 07, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:44 EST Ken, Greetings from the balmy south of central Canada! If DTP's your game, I would advise against a color monitor. One reason I got my TT in the first place was that I could use it to drive a TTM195 (Atari 1280x960 monitor) and the combined price was not much more than a Mega with Moniterm. PageStream (and I believe Calamus), and just about any software worth its salt, works fine on this monitor, and it saves a lot of time doing DTP because the screen needs to be redrawn much less often. Easier on the eyes than a color monitor, too. As for configuration, I think 4/4 is best if you are using the SLM. And I too prefer the feel of the Mega keyboard, so I switched keyboards between my TT and the older Mega (which my son now uses). gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 100 Sun Feb 07, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 10:18 EST KEN -- If you plan to use GCR with your TT, I strongly recommend at least 4 megs of ST RAM. Although Dave Small says he is "very close" on the next update to Spectre, which will have SCSI and TT FAST RAM support, who knows when it will appear? Many Mac programs, Such as Freehand will not run with only 2 megs of ST Ram. Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 101 Sun Feb 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 11:28 EST Ken, It is very easy to add boards to the TT (ST RAM or TT RAM) and it is easy to replace the HD. I have replaced the drive and added both RAM boards. For your use I would think you could get along with 4 megs of ST RAM, but you really will want another 4 megs of TT RAM. You also might want a larger drive. If you are using an Atari Laser I would get the GE board. Other wise I would guess you will be happy with 8 meg. Unless you get the GE board you will not (as I understand it) be able to expand the two Atari boards. I would guess the 8 megs of ST ram would be great for those with an Atari Laser. BTW I agree with gnox on the monitor. I have both and my PTC1426 color is seldom turned on. Best of luck up in the cold north. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 102 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:04 EST gnox...Swampy...>> Joe.M << gnox - Realm noted in the TT monitor topic that some software does not work on the large monitors. I should have mentioned that I have no "truck" with games. Don't own a single one other than those on magazine disks, and have never put one on my HD. I'll ask him in the monitor topic. I have yet to be able to grasp how the software and computer interact to determine which ram is used, and what effects the extra ram in each area has. It's my impression that all the auto folder programs and acc's go into ST ram. For that reason, 4 megs ST was my choice, since by the time I get done with Harlekin and Multidesk Deluxe and a couple others loading, Neodesk reports that only 2.4 megs of ram remains. Really crimps my style with Calamus SL. Anything special involved in switching the keyboards? Believe it or not, one of the teachers here has been to Sudbury! Swampy Have heard that there is some minor mods necessary to get GCR to work with TT. True? Have a friend here with a Mac II ci, I think, and would like to compare speeds. But need Dave to get color going. >> Joe.M << Is it easy enough to add the RAM boards that the average owner, with proper instructions, to do it? Does this apply to GE board? Any idea of $ involved? I would initially buy the TT with no HD as I have a 340 meg attached to my Mega. Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 103 Sun Feb 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 16:36 EST Ken, You should be able to add any RAM board easy. Theres only three slots in the computer and no way to do it backwards. The ST RAM plugs onto to connectors under the hard drive and the TT RAM plugs into the one connector in front of the power supply. I believe the GE RAM just allows you to upgrade with SIMMS. The TT RAM is tied directly to the 68030. You can experience up to a 2 time increase in speed when placing a program in TT RAM. I know it knocks a big chunk off the DynaCADD regeneration times. The 4/4 combo is the best route to get the most speed out of your TT at the cheapest startup cost. I'd also check out Phoenix before you buy a mono only monitor.:-) I consider it and Cyber Sculpt a must have combination. Works great with SL by the way! You can create 16million color TGA files and import them fine. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 104 Sun Feb 07, 1993 D.D.MARTIN [Swampy] at 17:17 EST FROZEN NORTH -- The _early_ TT's had some problems with Spectre. Seems there were several different versions of the mother board that required a soldering modification to be done to the GCR to be able to read/write to MAC discs. John [my SO %^)] purchased a new TT at WAACE this year from Sheldon Winnick. It came with 2mgST/4megTT ram and we popped a Spectre into it and booted into Mac mode with no problems! The only modification necessary was to add 2 more megs of ST ram so that he could run some of the real 'heavy' programs such as Freehand which require the memory. I'm no Techie, but at his seminar at WAACE, Dave alluded to the similarities between the Falcon and a color MAC II. Something about video output. I never understand the techie stuff, but I do recall his saying that color looked like it would be easy to do on the Falcon and that "it would be a cheap way to have a Mac II color system" %^). Hugs...Swampy ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 105 Sun Feb 07, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:39 EST REALM....Swampy Realm, I think I downloaded a Phoenix demo some time back, but have not had a chance to play. Work keeps getting in the way. Maybe it was Photochrome. Anyway, I'll check it out. Swampy, thanks for the info, guess I'll put the concerns about GCR and TT compatibility aside, and not worry about it. :-) Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 106 Mon Feb 08, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:49 EST Ken, The RAM boards come without instructions (at least mine did) but they only fit in one way, you can't miss. The ST board goes under the drive and the TT board on the other side. The ST board only requires removing one screw. The TT takes a few more, but you can have it done in less than 10 min. If you order the TT without a HD I believe you may have a part problem. I think I have heard the HD cover is constructed different for those shipped without a HD. You might want to check on that. I really don't know about the GE board, I don't have the $$$, it is a bit more expensive and I have not needed additional memory....... yet. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 107 Mon Feb 08, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 22:57 EST Am I understanding correctly when I read that I can plug my Mega 4 keyboard into my TT (and vice versa?) - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Sunday, February 7, 1993 5:45 pm ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 108 Mon Feb 08, 1993 S.WINICK at 23:58 EST Jason, The Mega and TT030 keyboards are completely compatible and interchangeable. Sheldon (Computer Studio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 109 Tue Feb 09, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:03 EST Okay, all you intelligent people, tell me what I to know to by SIMMS chips for a TT. Committed to used TT system last night, but no TT ram was ever installed. Current owner says SIMMS can be installed. Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 110 Wed Feb 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:43 EST But Jason, why would you want to use a Mega keyboard with the TT? One of the reasons I bought a TT was to get a real keyboard, with standard key spacing and those neat fkeys. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 111 Wed Feb 10, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 03:51 EST Ken, You can't -just- buy SIMMs for the TT. You also have to have the board that holds the SIMMs and/or has SIMMs installed on it. here's the basic choices these days: Atari boards come in (at least) 4 and 16 meg sizes for TT ram. The 4 meg boards have the SIMMs soldered in and the 16 meg has them clipped in the 'more' normal way. The price of Atari boards includes usually the SIMM's, I've never seen them come empty. These Atari boards cannot take more than 16 megs maximum. The GEsoft boards let you install your choice of SIMMs up to a 32 meg configuration. These can be purchased with or without SIMMs, however they are sensitive to only having the 'right' SIMMs installed. Some brands work, some don't. If you want to go with more than 16 megs, you might check with Nathan at DMC and or with TOAD computers. If you want to get an Atari board with 16 megs installed, send me email about it. New board, fair price. Good luck with yer TT! ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 112 Wed Feb 10, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:13 EST ORCA, Those soldered in SIMM boards have been out of production for a long time now. ALL TT-RAM boards use regular SIMM sockets for the nibble-mode SIMMs, and jumpers to set the correct settings for either 1-meg or 4-meg SIMMs. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 113 Wed Feb 10, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:49 EST ORCA and Sheldon Used TT arrived today, and is setting on the table warming up from the cold. :- ) Simms plug in capability is already installed according to previous owner. Along with computer was a sheet with jumper settings for GE-m/32 TT memory expansion board. Is this one of the GE boards that have been mentioned? It was purchased from Rio Computers in Las Vegas. I haven't opened up the TT yet, but the paper says "Under no circumstances are you to use Siemens SIMMS". If this is the board that is installed, and it probaly is, is there anyone on here that has current info? Sheldon - Slightly off topic, but has your techie told you how I can get the top off my 804 to clean and lube mechanism? Thanks, Ken ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 114 Thu Feb 11, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:07 EST Ken, On your 804 just pull the snap on part off the front. It's the part with the label on it. The snaps run across the bottom and top. If you pull hard enough on the sides it will pop off. Inside there are two screws on each side and after that the whole thing will lift off in one piece. You've probable got the GE RAM board since I've never heard of anything else.:-) The SIMMs are the actual memory blocks. They'll just snap right into the board. I'd contact Horizon(?) about the SIMMs. Their online here I believe. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 115 Thu Feb 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:42 EST The maximum memory for a Tt is a lot more than 16 megs. I've seen boards advertised that hold 256 megs, and I suspect that is not the limit. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 116 Thu Feb 11, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 04:29 EST Ken, > It's my impression that all the auto folder programs and acc's go into ST ram. Actually it's more the other way round. If you have both kinds, ACCs always load into TT ram, and there's no way to load them into ST ram (I tried!). All PRGs, though, have a pair of flags that you can set to control whether they load into ST or TT ram and also which kind they use for the other memory they demand. Your TT should come with a program called PRGFLAGS which sets those flags - or you can use Maxifile, or the Wizworks program SUPRFLAG, or a number of others. One thing you'll notice is that most programs and utilities that give you a `free ram' reading are actually telling you the size of the _largest block_ of free ram. For instance, you might have 3 separate blocks of TT ram free, and one 2-meg block of ST ram; if none of the TT ram blocks is over 2 megs, then most readouts will tell you that you have 2 meg free, when in fact you might have more than 4. The exceptions that actually total the two kinds of free ram include the General CPX and Codehead's ShowMem accessory, and Gribnif's Convector. As for switching keyboards, it's as simple as unplugging one and plugging in the other. Al, > why would you want to use a Mega keyboard with the TT? Well, de gustibus non disputandum, as they say! My Mega keyboard has a crisper feel than the TT keyboard and that's why I use it with the TT. That and the fact that templates are easier to attach to it. gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 117 Thu Feb 11, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:17 EST Sheldon, Does your comment mean I could replace my 1 meg SIMMs with 4 meg'ers and change a jumper? BTW thanks for the information on the TT High Res monitor when I called Tue. (I think that was you on the phone.) >> Joe M << ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 118 Thu Feb 11, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 17:11 EST Apparently auto/acc programs go into TT RAM regardless how you have their flags set. I really wish there was a solution for this. There is no way I wish to waste all my TT RAM on these programs, but going without them in order to save the TT RAM for applications I wish to use it with is not acceptable either. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 119 Thu Feb 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:01 EST Sandy, I haven't tested AUTO programs, but always assumed they were loaded according to their PRG Flag settings. Have you specifically tested AUTO programs? I could swear I remember setting some AUTO programs to run in ST RAM because they were crashing in TT RAM. ACCs on the other hand, do seem to always load in TT RAM if it exists. I mentioned over in our Category that I did a little investigation about this. The reason that ACCs get loaded into TT RAM is that their memory is allocated by the desktop program and the desktop program's basepage is set to use TT RAM (by the ROM OS). It might be possible to write an AUTO program that watches the ACC loading and diddles the desktop's basepage to load each ACC in the spot designated in its file header (PRG Flags). John ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 120 Thu Feb 11, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 21:38 EST I thought I had tested auto programs, but I had tried so many different configurations I lost track. You are right. The auto programs behave according to their flags, but the accessories sure don't. Your idea sounds interesting. Too bad I am not a programmer. I really don't want to have to change my way of using my computer, but I might have to. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 121 Fri Feb 12, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:39 EST gnox It got warmer up here! I think you can add Neodesk 3.03 patch to the list that gives correct free ram. There's something about that in the readme files. One reason for switching the keyboards is that you are used to the Mega keyboard. Also, the closer spacing and smaller size of the Mega keyboard is a good thing for people with small hands. Kind of like how many keys you can span on the piano keyboard. :-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 122 Fri Feb 12, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:40 EST John, > It might be possible to write an AUTO program that watches >the ACC loading and diddles the desktop's basepage to load each ACC in the >spot designated in its file header (PRG Flags). Anybody who writes that program has a customer here! gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 123 Fri Feb 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:36 EST Gnox, They key spacing of the Mega keyboard bothers me, but, as you say, de keyboardus non takum awayeth. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 124 Fri Feb 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:22 EST Ken Springer, The Mega keyboard is not smaller than the TT keyboard. Both keyboards have the exact same spacing between _keys_. The TT keyboard has smaller key _tops_, however, which provides extra space between the top edges of the keys. This way, one is less likely to accidentally hit a neighboring key because the neighboring key top is further away from a carelessly aimed finger. BTW, the distance between key blocks (main, cursor control, and keypad) is 3/32" closer on the TT keyboard. This means that some spans between keys are smaller on the TT. For instance, the distance between the Shift and Enter keys is 3/16" less on the TT. Since I have a Mega and a TT within a foot of each other, these comparisons are easy. John ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 125 Fri Feb 12, 1993 PMC.INC at 22:23 EST Sandy, why the big concern over the accessories loading into TT RAM? How much RAM do you have? Just wondering... oscar ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 126 Sat Feb 13, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 01:05 EST John, I didn't know the keyboards were the same size. It was just my impression from reading articles over the years and seeing comments on the "smaller than standard" (?) Mega keyboard. Then TT articles started to appear, and it sounded to me that the keyboard was physically bigger. Perspective being what it is, smaller keytops would make it seem that way. I haven't typed on my "new to me" TT enough to fill a postcard, so hadn't really noticed anything as to how it feels relating to size. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 127 Sat Feb 13, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:41 EST John, Interesting stats on the two keyboards - I've never thought to look at them that closely. gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 128 Sat Feb 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:03 EST John, Thanks for measuring the two keyboards. I had assumed that the keys on the Mega were closer together because they *felt* closer. I know it's a lot easier for me to type on the TT keyboard, especially since it is similar to the keyboards I use at the office. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 129 Sat Feb 13, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 18:13 EST Oscar - How much RAM I have is not the issue. It is what I use it for. For example, Steno is most useful to me with a _large_ buffer. Likewise for other accessories that are not small. I find having to use TT RAM for these programs to be a major waste of TT RAM that could be better used for applications I am working with. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 130 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.LEBLANC3 [Jeff] at 12:11 EST Sheldon, Is it possible to buy an unpopulated Atari TT ram board? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 131 Sun Feb 14, 1993 S.WINICK at 12:23 EST Jeff, Atari only ships populated TT-RAM boards (or TT-RAM boards with the SIMMs either installed or in the same package). However, its very possible a dealer may be willing to remove the SIMMs and sell you an unpopulated board. Why would you want an unpopulated TT-RAM board though -- do you already have a set of nibble mode SIMMs lying around someplace? Check with your favorite dealer either by phone or here online in GEnieMail. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 132 Mon Feb 15, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 04:20 EST The used TT I bought has a GE-m/32 TT memory expansion board installed, but no SIMMS The paper work says absolutely no Siemens SIMMS. The paper guarantees Toshiba and Nec 80ns modules. I assume they are x X 8 X 80. Anyone know of any other brands that will work and those that don't? Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 133 Wed Feb 17, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:55 EST Ken, you want to buy Apple Mac 1Megx8 or 4Megx8 pagemode SIMMs, Toshiba is the best brand, worth hunting down, I use Toshiba drams on my accelerator cause I like'em! You must buy 4 at a time, since the ram must be 32bits wide. There are 8 SIMM sockets, so you can add up to 8 4Meg SIMMs for 32Megs of ram. 1Meg SIMMs go for $20-40, while 4Meg SIMMs go for $95-140 each...shop around looking in the back of MacUser. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 134 Wed Feb 17, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 23:23 EST FAST TECH - Cheapest SIMMS I've found so far is $114 and they were Okidata. I want to make sure I don't buy something that will fry the machine. Would appreciate suggestions as to where to find them for $90. If you have some, would appreciate email. BTW, this is still being done on my Mega 4 w/ your T-16 from norther Alaska! :-) Ken S. PS Does pagemode indicate something special I should ask about when shopping? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 135 Thu Feb 18, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:22 EST Nope, pagemode is the typical one, the nibblemode ones used by Atari's board you would have to ask for special. i The back of Computer Shopper can yeild some $95 prices. Also HiTech in SanLouis Obispo Ca. usually has some cheap delas, and the Chip Merchant in SanDeigo Ca. also is known for good deals too. SHop around...by phone of course ;-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 136 Thu Feb 18, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 15:36 EST Ken ... You definitely have a GE Soft card installed. You must fill up an entire bank. You have two banks. Your choice is to use 1 meg or 4 meg SIMMs. We have been using 70 NS NEC SIMMs here and I'd advise you to be careful as Jim mentioned, some brands are not compatible with the GE Soft board. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 137 Fri Feb 19, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:21 EST Nathan, Being careful is the reason for the posting. Living where I do the last thing I want to do "blow it up"! :-) The GE paperwork lists NEC and Toshiba as having guaranteed compatibility, but was curious as to others that were known to operate okay. At first was just going to get 1 meg SIMMs, but after reading different areas, think I will go for the 4 Megs. Ken S. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 138 Fri Feb 19, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 18:01 EST Remember the 70 NS part Ken. ;-) Nathan ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 139 Sun Mar 21, 1993 PMC.INC at 12:16 EST A while back I got ahold of a PD program called RAMROMTT. It's supposed to speed up RAM/ROM access, which it does. However, it does so at a sacrifice to other areas. What I'm wondering is, how much use does the RAM/ROM access get compared to other things. I mean, dialogs are used all the time, and a slowdown in dialogs would be apparent. What about RAM access. What does the RAMROMTT program actually speed up. I think Jim Allen whipped up the program, anyone have any ideas? Here are some results I got: GEM Bench II v1.0 Ofir Gal 15.2.93 ========================================== TT TOS 3.01 Blitter not present With Warp 9 & RAMROM With Warp 9 & no RAMROM GEM Dialog Box: 1.680 178% 1.750 171% VDI Text: 1.100 375% 1.165 354% VDI Text effects: 0.355 558% 0.370 535% VDI Small Text: 0.750 641% 0.775 620% VDI graphics: 4.000 77% 4.520 69% GEM Window: 3.520 75% 3.580 74% Integer division: 0.330 124% 0.365 112% Float math: 0.735 146% 0.735 146% RAM Access: 0.390 117% 0.315 144% ROM Access: 0.285 189% 0.240 225% VDI Scroll: 3.540 86% 3.575 85% VDI Enquire: 0.945 133% 1.110 113% ============================================================= Average: 224% 220% Graphics: 265% 252% Other: 144% 156% ------------ --------- The test was done in TT medium res, hence some of the low numbers. oscar ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 140 Sun Mar 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:26 EST Oscar, I use RAMROMTT about half the time. It speeds up all the desktop operations and most other aspects of the TT. I have found a problem with some older comm programs, involving timing, but that's about it. The only sacrifice is memory -- TOS in RAM takes up a chunk. Where did you see problems? Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 141 Sun Mar 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:34 EST Don't forget the spacing Oscar. *******Brian********* Written on Sunday 21 March 1993 at 08:36 p.m. AST ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 142 Sun Mar 21, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:25 EST Oscar, all it does is copy the TOS rom image into ram...aligned on a 32Kbyte boundary...and then change the MMU table entry so that the 030 chip goes out to the TTram based copy of TOS to access the "roms" rather than talk to the roms on the motherboard directly....since the ram is faster, and allows burstmode reads. That's all, the only ramifications for this are timing problems since the code in "rom" is now running faster than it did before....and if a timing loop was close in rom, it might not be long enough running from ram....and of course it sucks up a little over 512K of TTram for the copy. Just about everyone using Turbo030 boards uses RAMROM also...a TOS 2.06 version, for 256K of image instead of 512K like TOS 3.06. I haven't heard of any problems from folks, but none do highspeed modem stuff....just DTP, CAD and rendering, or custom apps. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 143 Fri Mar 26, 1993 PMC.INC at 00:16 EST Brian, sorry forgot about the spacing... Jim, thanks for clearing it up. But what about the slowdown in graphics, does the speed increase of accessing the RAM outweight that? Al, look at the data for RAMROMTT. It shows that there is a decrease in speed in certain graphics operations. Have you noticed a speed increase perceptually? I haven't had any problems with it, however. oscar ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 144 Fri Mar 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:24 EST Oscar, No slowdown. Lots of speedup. TT 4/4, TOS 3.06. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 145 Sat Mar 27, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:27 EST Remember that benchmark programs can get there baselines affected if the timing or timer routines they counted on being consistent are now running at a different speed themselves. Also, the 030 MMU has an address translation cache, a small cache that keeps the most used page table entries stored in it. This saves time so the 030 doesn't have to go out and load in the page table for a memory block before accessing the memory block. Perhaps in some graphics routines the ATC is getting hit just right to cause a "thrashing" effect, where the sequence of accesses bumps the rom's ATC entry when the screen is diddled, and then the screen's ATC entry is bumped when the rom is accessed, back and forth. Each time through, FIRST the 030 must get the page descriptor for the block THEN access the block, so there are suddenly a few extra memory accesses to get the page information into the chip before each block is accessed. it can lead to some CPU "make work", if you know what I mean. Maybe there is a way to "lock" the rom ATC entry so it can't be bumped? I'll have to go back to the manual. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 146 Sun Mar 28, 1993 G.ANDERSON at 15:37 EST Jim, I'm sure you covered it a long time ago but can you explain (again> why an external CPU cache can NOT be added to a TT? Such an addition should do wonders for the TT's already impressive performance. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 147 Mon Mar 29, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:41 EST Just mechanically not possible. The TT ram bus isn't the whole 030 bus, so you can't just slap one in there, and there aren't any other connectors with even that much of the 030 bus on them. And they stopped making PGA 030 machines and went SMD, so you can't even plug in under the CPU. And there aren't enough machines to sell enough addons to recoup the development expenses. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 148 Mon Mar 29, 1993 G.ANDERSON at 21:26 EST Once again, what's PGA and what's SMD?????? I understand the limited numbers, though I'd hopped for better numbers. I am suprised to find that the TT RAM bus isn't a full 32-bit bus. Rats...... Ah well, thought I'd ask Gregg PS: so what's the word on my T-25???? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 149 Tue Mar 30, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:06 EST Gregg. The TT ram bus _IS_ a 32bit bus. It is _NOT_ the full 030 bus, which is REQUIRED toallow caching hardware to monitor things correctly. So the TT ram connector isn't a place to stuff a cache in...or I might have done a few. PGA is the chip that's ceramic with pins sticking out of the bottom...PIN GRID ARRAY. SMD is the PLCC chip with the little pins all soldered to the PCBoard. You T25, etc is heading down, I was awaiting Joeys FPU chip, which is here now, so call Sheldon thursday. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 150 Tue Mar 30, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:33 EST Jim, Guess that means I'd better clear off a space on the workbench and expect to have Gregg camping out on my doorstep Thursday morning waiting for the UPS delivery truck to arrive. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 151 Tue Mar 30, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:58 EST It's going to be FedX not ups...the office is closer ;-) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 152 Thu Apr 01, 1993 G.ANDERSON at 20:58 EST Thanks Jim, remind me to say some nasty things about FedX..... I was at the STudio until 1530 hrs ( three thirty PM for all you civilian types ) and NO FedX deliveries...... I'll be there tomorrow though, count on it. The only hassle is in I've got to run a LOT of tests on the darn thing BEFORE I can install the beast.... and right now my time is eaten up by a master's class... ARG!!!!!!! Don't worry, I'll get that thing redone as FAST as I can manage. As long as you'regoing to be be there to sell and support our systems Jim I'll be supporting Fast E oops.... Tech.......... The T-16 has been a good product, I fully expect to find the T-25 an even better one. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 153 Tue Apr 06, 1993 PMC.INC at 23:34 EDT Here are some results for RAMROMTT and the newly posted ROMRAM. It'd be nice to be able to get Jim's RAMROM to offer the graphics speedup of ROMRAM as well as retain the RAM/ROM speeds. As you can see, using both doesn't solve the problem: GEM Bench II v1.0 Ofir Gal 15.2.93 ============================================== TT TOS 3.01 Blitter not present RAMROM ROMRAM & RAMROM ROMRAM GEM Dialog Box: 1.695 176% 1.640 182% same as R & R VDI Text: 1.090 378% 1.070 386% " VDI Text effects: 0.360 550% 0.355 558% " VDI Small Text: 0.730 658% 0.710 677% " VDI graphics: 3.980 78% 3.820 81% " GEM Window: 3.520 75% 3.520 75% " Integer division: 0.360 114% 0.330 124% 0.360 114% Float math: 0.695 155% 0.720 149% 0.725 148% RAM Access: 0.315 144% 0.370 123% 0.320 142% ROM Access: 0.310 174% 0.435 124% 0.360 150% Blitting: 0.000 0% 0.000 0% same as R & R VDI Scroll: 3.540 86% 3.520 86% " GDOS Fonts: 0.000 0% 0.000 0% " VDI Enquire: 0.970 129% 0.850 148% 0.865 145% ========================================================================= Average: 226% 226% 228% Graphics: 266% 274% 273% Other: 146% 130% 138% ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 154 Wed Apr 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:14 EST Reformat.. RAMROM ROMRAM & RAMROM ROMRAM GEM Dialog Box: 1.695 176% 1.640 182% same as R & R VDI Text: 1.090 378% 1.070 386% " VDI Text effects: 0.360 550% 0.355 558% " VDI Small Text: 0.730 658% 0.710 677% " VDI graphics: 3.980 78% 3.820 81% " GEM Window: 3.520 75% 3.520 75% " Integer division: 0.360 114% 0.330 124% 0.360 114% Float math: 0.695 155% 0.720 149% 0.725 148% RAM Access: 0.315 144% 0.370 123% 0.320 142% ROM Access: 0.310 174% 0.435 124% 0.360 150% Blitting: 0.000 0% 0.000 0% same as R & R VDI Scroll: 3.540 86% 3.520 86% " GDOS Fonts: 0.000 0% 0.000 0% " VDI Enquire: 0.970 129% 0.850 148% 0.865 145% ==================================================================== Average: 226% 226% 228% Graphics: 266% 274% 273% Other: 146% 130% 138% ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 155 Wed Apr 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:09 EDT Thanks for the comparison! Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 156 Wed Apr 07, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 10:00 EDT How do the numbers look if you use ST Ram(that's all I've got-10Mb-at the present)? What happens with the Blitter on? Also, I have TT TOS 3.06, does that matter? Would running RAMROM or ROMRAM speed up RAM disk performance? Jack ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 157 Thu Apr 08, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 00:50 EDT Hey, can anyone enlighten me on the the ad I have seen for RIO Computers (Las Vegas,NV). They have an ad for "32MB TT Fast RAM new version only $399.95" How can this be if most dealers sell 4MB of TT RAM for $299? How can 32MB be only $100 more? I thought that it may be some sort of unpopulated RAM board, but if it is, than the ad is very misleading because it states "TT RAM." They also have 64MB TT RAM advertised as well. Can anyone offer any input on this? Thanks... (I guess I should just call them) --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 158 Thu Apr 08, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:10 EDT Lou, Rio is selling the 0K GESoft ram board...which can hold 32Megs max...for $399. It's the ram board, no SIMMs are included. I'm sure other dealers can be competitive too on price, call around. I have no idea what ROMRAM does, it's ZIPPED and I only do ARC or LHArc, for the life of me I don't understand this preoccupation with newer and different archivers, it's just too much to bother with. understand, all my RAMROM does is take the roms, copy them into TTram, and use the MMU to point to them and write protect that block while I'm at it. The "speedup" simply comes from the TTrams faster burstmode read accesses. Other programs might do additional things, like making sure stacks are in TT ram, and/or moving the lower OS variables in low memory up to TT ram too, that might give another speed boost since reading OS variables would be faster and some OS routines read those areas ALOT. but it's a bit more complex to carry out, so I didn't put the work in. Frankly, anyone with an 030 manual, and an assembler, can whip up their own RAMROM type program, and add all the bells and whistles desrired. There are lots of tricks, Dave Small has discussed them many times in the past. The "ST" ram in the TT does not do "burst mode" so there is really no reason or benefit to copying the roms into ST ram, TT ram is what gives the opportunity for a boost. From what I can tell, as long as you're up to TOS 3.06, there are no problems possible from using RAMROM, earlier TOS 3.0x versions didn't have as robust floppy routines as the final version had, so my warning about possible floppy problems is really moot in reference to TOS 3.06. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 159 Thu Apr 08, 1993 PMC.INC at 21:15 EDT Joe, thanks for that. I keep on forgetting when I do things like that. Jack, I did a test in ST RAM, but didn't save it and I didn't feel like doing it again. From memory it slowed down the RAM/ROM access but spead up Floating Point. oscar ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 160 Thu Apr 08, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 23:55 EDT Fast Tech, Thanks, I assumed that it was just an unpopulated RAM board for the TT. What I found misleading is that that they really dont specify that. They just list it as 32MEG TT Fast RAM ... If it was just a RAM board couldn't it be either or (another words TT or ST Ram)? Right now, I have four and four (4ST/4TT Ram) it is enough for now, though I may want to upgrade it in the future. --Lou T.-- ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 161 Fri Apr 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EDT Lou, That Rio ad is referring to the cost of the "0K" board. That "0K" business is a sore point, and I get a lot of questions from readers about it. It looks like "OK" -- and all of us would like to buy an "OK" board, right? But it means "zero kilobytes of RAM installed." I suppose if they said "0M" for megabytes it would ruin their little gambit.... Jim Allen, Hmm, you add STZip to your list of assigned applications, and then click on a ZIP file, and that's all there is to it. A guy who is one of the deans of speed in Atariland who doesn't use ZIP? It's faster and easier, and has a built-in text viewer and clipboard-save function, in addition to a host of other features. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 162 Fri Apr 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 14:35 EDT Allow me to refer you to K.BROOKS1 Keith Brooks, right here on GEnie Lou. He is from New Horizon and imports the GE Soft RAM expansion boards as well. He will tell you exactly what you are getting. Meanwhile, since I'm alredy here, ;-), and I own one, the board has two banks, each capable of holding 4 SIMM chips, either 1 meg or 4 meg. You must fill an entire bank. We installed 8 x 4MEG 70 NS (fastram) SIMMs for an additional 32 MEG in Mario's TT and love it. ;-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 163 Sat Apr 10, 1993 CBARRON at 02:34 EDT Nathan, you say an additional 32 Meg's of RAM. Does that mean my original TT RAM is usable or does this atari ttram card become expensive garbage??? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 164 Sat Apr 10, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:31 EDT There are two expansion ports on the TT, one for ST RAM and one for TT RAM. To the best of my knowledge, the most you can do with the ST RAM is to buy and install an 8 MEG ST RAM board from Atari which would give you 10 MEG of ST RAM. On the TT RAM port you can either install an Atari 4 meg or 16 meg TT RAM card OR buy a GE Soft board in one of various configurations, from 32 MEG up to 128 MEG I believe. The beauty of the GE Soft board is that you can install 1 or 4 MEG SIMMs when you choose to do so up to the maximum your board can handle. Mario's TT has that 8 MEG ST RAM card so he has 10 MEG ST RAM and 32 MEG TT RAM AND I have already ordered a 64 MEG GE Soft board to replace his 32 MEG one. Does this help you? Sincerely Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 165 Sun Apr 11, 1993 CBARRON at 03:43 EDT Nathan - Thanks, as a TT owner I am familiar with the TTram and Stram. Just wanted to clarify a point. Might be upgrading after I recieve MTOS.... 64 megs would be nice for multitos or those 16million color scans. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 166 Sun Apr 11, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 10:43 EDT Yeah ;-) Mario's been scanning in 600 dpi color off the Microtek and those files can get large. Nathan ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 167 Sat Apr 17, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 09:38 EDT Quick question: Can the 4x8 simms used on the GE board be used on the Atari board? What are the simm part numbers? The 4meg board I have can be set to 16 by replacing the simms and jumper settings. The only 4x8 nibble mode simms I have been able to locate are listing from $200-$300 per simm. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 168 Sat Apr 17, 1993 WILLIAMHLANG [Bill Lang] at 16:14 EDT Hi, Can anyone help me? I upgraded to a used TT a recently and am having problems which I suspect are memory related. The TT has 16 meg of TT ram and 4 of ST. The first problem I had was with my slm804 ghost printing. I solved that by using a DMA switch box. The other problems concern my ICD tape backup and cdar 504. The tape backup wont read at all. (I upgraded to the latest version which is spose to be TT compatable) but it will write to the tape. I backed up several partitions and was able to read them with my ste but the TT will just go through the whole tape and tell me it couldn't find anything. The cdrom does work but not on all programs.. using a clipart CD I can get some of the files with Style but couldn't with Pagestream until I fooled around with a program called flagsett ( I think). I was able to set it to use only ST ram and that seemed to help if the file is not too big. That is what led me to belive the problem is the TT memory. If I knew what I was doing, I could probably do the same with the ICD tape prg. but have had no luck with it. I have seen references to using TT ram and ST ram but don't understand how people are doing this. I like the computer in general and would probably be thrilled with it if I could get it to use these peripherals correctly. Any suggestions, guesses, anecdotes, clomps on the head,etc. would be appreciated.. Thanks, Bill ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 169 Sat Apr 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:44 EDT Cliff, I'd like to know the same thing (on the use of 4-meg SIMMs in the Atari TT RAM board). Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 170 Sun Apr 18, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 11:05 EDT Bill, The RAM thing is really simple. You have TT RAM and ST RAM, I don't believe TT RAM can be used with the Laser or DMA but I may be wrong. Theres a program in the library here called PRGFLAGS.PRG. Sounds like you may already have it? Anyway you can set your programs to Run in TT RAM and/or Use TT RAM. I would think your best bet is to set all your CD drivers and such to run in ST RAM and use ST RAM, you might want to turn the Fast Load bit off also. Basically by setting a program to RUN in TT RAM it will load itself into TT RAM from the hard Drive and RUN from there. If you set it to USE TT RAM then anything it takes for itself will also be put into TT RAM. Does that make sense? Lets say you have Degas set to RUN in TT RAM but USE ST RAM (which I think is the only way it works right in TT RAM). Now Degas is loaded into TT RAM but it needs space for the picture your going to draw. It claims that space in ST RAM because it's set to USE ST RAM. So you end up with Degas running in TT RAM and your picture being stored in ST RAM. So Degas would be using 50K of TT RAM for itself and 32K of ST RAM for your picture. I've only run across a few things that don't run in TT RAM. Cybersculpt will RUN in TT RAM if you have it set to USE ST RAM. The 3D realtime rotation screen won't work otherwise. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 171 Sun Apr 18, 1993 JIM.HEPWORTH at 11:55 EDT What's this I keep hearing about 4x8 nibble mode simms? What is a nibble mode simm? I had 4-4meg 1x9 simms out of a PC that I put in my Atari 4meg TT ram board. Moved the jumpers and viola 16meg TT ram. Had them in for a couple of months now with no problems. I am hearing that I shouldn't have used this type of simm? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 172 Sat May 01, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 01:57 EDT I've had my TT for several months now but just got my TT ram board. I was using the program to change the flags for TT ram use and allocation, and was wondering what changing the TT RAM size does? It defaults to 128K, why? thanks, Jim. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 173 Sat May 01, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:23 EDT Jim, Which program are you talking about? PRGFLAGS? (I use MaxiFile myself to change the flags.) gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 174 Sat May 01, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 20:40 EDT Gnox, I am using FLGSETT and it gives an option for the "size of TT ram" with values from 128K to 2048K. I just don't know what the purpose of the setting is. Jim. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 175 Sun May 02, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:11 EDT Jim, Me neither! I've never seen FLGSETT. Well, maybe somebody will pop up who uses it. gnox ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 176 Sun May 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:52 EDT Gnox and Jim, MaxiFile does a wonderful job of setting TT flags (and the fast-load flag, too). It can reset any and all flags -- and do any other bit-setting you want - - on all the files in your system at once, if you want. Flagsett, or whatever it is called, is no comparison at all. I tried it and archived it and never went back to it. This can't be emphasized enough: If you don't have -- or don't really use -- Maxi, you are laboring too hard with your Atari. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 177 Wed Jun 23, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:33 EDT Ok... I know that this has had to have been asked and answered at least a few times already.... but I'm going to try anyway? I know that the Atari-standard TT-RAM board uses 'Nibble Mode' RAM in the 4 and 16 Meg TT-RAM boards. I know that Nibble Mode is supposed to be much faster than standard 'Page Mode' RAM. But how much faster? I understand that the GE-RAM board uses page mode SIMS rather than Nibble mode so, once you've paid for the board (very expensive) the RAM itself is less expensive. Has anyone ever done a one-on-one test and matched Nibble Mode/Page Mode TT- RAM against each other to see just how big a difference there is? How about a price breakdown between the two? Near as I can see there are only the two options for TT Ram... the GE board or Atari's board (which is a touch scarce right now while we wait for the renewed TT production run to bear fruit). Curious Minds want to know.... and if they don't I do Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 178 Thu Jun 24, 1993 E.WELLS at 01:47 EDT Gregg, I was talking to my local dealer and service guy recently about upgrading my TT ram. (there was a conversation here about these some time ago, you might check) Apparently the 16m and 4m boards are the same with different jumper settings. You could thearetically pop out you 1meg simms and pop in 4 meg sims (4mx8 page mode). All you then have to do is reset the jumpers (for which there is a text file in the libraries). My board uses sipps, but it appears that we'll be able to attach socket for the simms... EHW ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 179 Fri Jun 25, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:07 EDT EHW... I also understand that the 4Meg board can be converted to 16Meg in more or less the fashion you describe (though only service centers have access to the correct layout and jumper settings). But.... are they Nibble Mode or Page Mode (in the Atari sourced boards)? And if Page Mode is used instead of Nibble Mode how much performance is lost? What I'm trying to do is find out how much of a performance impact using Page Mode SIMS will have on a TT in TTRam... No idea yet and so far no one's offered any thoughts on this specific question. I know that software running in TT Ram (like DynaCADD) is MUCH faster than when running in ST/System RAM. But how much of that gain is from the use of Nibble Mode Chips and how much is due to the wider data bus, freedom from video/audio subsystem interferance, and so-on? Ah well, maybe time will tell. By the way.... It's coming up on the end of June..... From what I understand we should be expecting to see some of the new batch of TT systems next month..... At least I think July was the last released (announced) date. I hope so, it would be nice to have some new TT systems to sell at the BlueRidge AtariFest, MIST, Glendale, and (maybe) WAACE's minishow. Thanks; Gregg PS: my dream system: a 16Meg TT running a Nova or Sunrise video board, 17" Viewsonic super monitor, and.... why go on, I ran out of money right after the word 'system'. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 180 Sat Jun 26, 1993 J.DERNAR at 09:59 EDT Yes it would be nice to see the new batch of TT's hit the street with 4 abd 4 mb of ram and at least a 100mb drive included for about $1300. They would be competitively priced and would move like wildfire. But at their current price they are just a bit too pricey. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 181 Sun Jun 27, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 02:26 EDT Frankly, I'm just a little bit ticked off at the lack of information forthcoming from Atari on this subject. Does Atari Corp. monitor this topic? ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 182 Tue Jun 29, 1993 ST-GUEST [SAK] at 19:54 EDT ANYONE... If and when I deside to upgrade my TT ram to 16 megs, what do you suppose I should do with the perfectly good 4 meg TT ram board. I mean isn't there a trade in policy, or are we expected to throw the board away. Or would I be better off desoldering the chips and installing sockets so that I can put 4 meg simms in. Are there people that would be willing to buy 4 meg,TT ram boards? And what are they worth? Steve Kaleita ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 183 Tue Jun 29, 1993 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 21:30 EDT Steve - If the price is right, I'll buy your 4meg board. Meet me in E-mail. Ted BTW, don't you live in the vicinity of Sun Prarie? I've got one of your shirts..... ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 184 Wed Jun 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:33 EDT Steve, I HAVE a 4-meg TT RAM board, so I'm in your situation. Let me know how your project comes out. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 185 Wed Jun 30, 1993 ST-GUEST [SAK] at 20:49 EDT Ted, Yes I live about 12 miles from Sun Prairie; Marshall to be exact. So where might you be? Milwaukee? P.S. I'm not really ready to upgrade yet, but this is my first step in the process. I'll keep you informed. Steve Kaleita ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 186 Thu Jul 01, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 05:25 EDT AL, I've got a customer who wants to buy a TT030 w/ 4MB of ST RAM. I'm sure that he would be more interested in a 2ST/4TT RAM config. If you want to offload a 4MB TT board, keep in touch... BTW, from looking at my TT RAM board, I would assume I could insert 4MB SIMMS and go to 16 MB... I've heard a jumper also needs to change positions.., but anyway, do you own a different board? Bob Beatty @ Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 187 Thu Jul 01, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:16 EDT Bob, I have the standard Atari RAM boards for both types of RAM. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 188 Thu Jul 01, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:22 EDT I know what you mean. We've got someone looking for a MINIMUM of 16 Meg of TT Ram for his system (runs a business with it) and we can't get an Atari board that large right now. We've been looking for the GE-Soft RAM board but so far no luck on finding the outfit that imports it. I've a feeling that there are several folks out there that would be willing to accept an Atari TT4Meg board in trade for something larger, if they could find something larger to sell in the first place . Seriously... once Atari gets its new TT production run up and going then the shortage of TT 4/16Meg RAM board should be eased quite a bit... Till then I guess it's catch as catch can. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 189 Thu Jul 01, 1993 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 21:25 EDT Steve, I grew up in Wisconsin, but haven't been there for about 11yrs - living in Virginia at the moment. I made a guess about Sun Prairie based on a post you made a year or two ago, when you first started posting on GEnie. Rgr on the TT board. I don't really need one, but that doesn't stop me from wanting one anyway - especially if it's a good deal. TTFN Ted ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 190 Fri Jul 02, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 08:01 EDT Gregg ... Look no further, New Horizons import GE SOft boards. Keith is online at K.BROOKS1. I have 4 units on order even as we speak. ;-) Sincerely Nathan @ DMC ps: I've also heard that there may be a new expansion board being developed locally. I should be able to confirm this is the next few days. ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 191 Fri Jul 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:12 EDT Gregg, Apparently the decision to revamp production of the TT was prompted by the need for a developer's kit for the Jag. No doubt this will help Atari get some feedback from non-Atari users on the TT, and improved TT ROMs may result. Al ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 192 Sat Jul 03, 1993 ST-GUEST [SAK] at 00:07 EDT Ted, You must of moved out of state just about the same time I moved in. I've been here just over 10 years...from Detroit area. Well at least I know know that I won't have a hard time with finding a buyer for my 4 meg TT ram board. Steve (SAK) :) ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 193 Sat Jul 03, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:59 EDT Thanks Nathan, I'll drop him some Email to find the current cost/available stats of the GE Soft TT-RAM board (and anything else they handle ). Pity you're not able to make the BlueRidge fest this year, I was looking forward to seeing you (and maybe your better half as well) again. I assume Mario is bringing down my SL upgrade??? You never did let me know what modules to try for . Now I've got to try and decide what to do hardware-wise.... Old TT, new production run TT, Falcon, MegaSTe, try to upgrade my old Mega4 (via one of Jim Allen's new 8 Meg RAM expansion units and a graphics board), or what. I'll be asking a LOT of questions at the Fest.... trying to learn as much as I possibly can on the new graphics boards and how the work (and how compatible they are). Though with my budget I don't know why.... . Thanks old buddy, talk to you later. Gregg ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 194 Sat Jul 03, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:56 EDT Mario will bring this and that with him. Pick his brain and THEN we'll upgrade you. ;-) He'll have the Cyrel Sunrise with him for certain too. ;-)] I too wish I could attend the Asheville show again. Sincerely Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 28, Topic 13 Message 195 Sun Jul 04, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 14:56 EDT Thanks Nathan, I'll be looking forward to 'picking Mario's brain' at the show... I've been trying to use the SL on the shop's demo Falcon, somewhat different from my old 1.09n. Take care; Gregg ------------