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The system will prompt you for your information. ================================================================================ ************ Topic 20 Mon Sep 09, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 17:55 EDT Sub: Calamus S/SL To avoid confusion, it's time we started a new topic specifically to discuss Calamus S or SL because there are differences. :-) 572 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 1 Mon Sep 09, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 18:02 EDT The major difference between Calamus SL over 1.09N or S is the fact that Calamus SL handles colour. I am learning a thing or two in this regard and perhaps I can share with you some of my ongoing education. Especially since I've noticed that everyone has a different point of few so this could really prove educational for us all. The following is an example of the type of real world scenario currently being enacted by one of my beta testers. I thought that some of you might find this of interest. It is his last weeks report to me and has NOT been edited to protect the innocent. :-) If he had his own GEnie account I would have had him uplod this himself. I'm working on him. :-) "Well, I've spent the last 2 weeks doing a wonderful 4 colour process layout for a mailer, including a colour scanned TIFF image and all sorts of fancy text effects (albeit with PD fonts...). In the process I've gotten to explore SL quite a lot and I have to admit, it's one hell of a program. Great attribute handling, virtual memory works fine,( you use it a lot with a 1.6 Mb TIFF in your document) and in practice it's really not so slow after all. I've also gotten to the point where I go nuts without the magnifying glass feature in the old Calamus... I like the way that the text attributes are organized now, very efficient. The master page feature makes it very easy to do registration marks/crops etc. but the TXT files Mario uploaded to me say that the Final version will have a "Working space" function that will automatically print cropmarks and the name of the separation. A damn fine idea and one less advantage for Quark. :-) The tiling feature in the Print box is a godsend and I find I'm using it 80% of the time I print, simply maaahvelous. And the Sort feature lets me have the pages stack in order on the Deskjet. The ability to control the offset of the frame copies is another major improvement. Now we get technical again... Colours in SL, hummm... The txt files Mario sent me went a long way in explaining just what was going on in that Colour/Raster Settings box and how the Separation Module is supposed to work. I'll try to put it into layman's terms for you. (Nathan here: I did need this in laymans terms. I'm also learning!) First a glossary of sorts: RGB - Red/Green/Blue, The ADDITIVE colours, ie; R+G+B = White -(monitors) CYM - You know them, The SUBTRACTIVE colours ; C+Y+M = BLACK -(print ink) CYMK - Due to contamination of printing inks, C+Y+M = Brownish Black so printers add a fourth colour (Black) to darken the darks and increase the contrast of the colours. UCR- Under Color Removal; Printers figured that since they were going to print a black colour anyway, why not remove the colours where the CYM colours were at 100% and just print the black there. This gave darker blacks and saved colour ink to boot. GCR- Grey Component Replacement; Printers then figured out that while they were replacing the solid blacks, they might as well replace the areas where the CYM values made a grey (ie; C,Y & M at 50%) with a corresponding screen value. (ie; Black at 50%) TA-DA, more ink saved. Second, a primer on how most North Americans design for color printing: The traditional way: A designer draws up comps and gets client approval for the final design and type/colours/artwork/photos or whatever. The designer farms out the various parts to typesetters/artists/photographers and then puts it all together into a "mechanical" with overlays for each spot colour ( specifying the colours as Pantone PMS numbers or as CYMK%s.) He then gives it to the printer, who has the artwork/photos separated (using the UCR and/or GCR methods) and then everything is stripped together at the film stage. From film, a colour proof is made (several types, most common are Chromalins and ColourKeys ) which is OK'd by the client. If OK, plates are made and the job is printed. The DTP (Mac) way: A designer draws up comps and gets client approval. Near the final set of comps, he may opt for laser proofs or even colour postscript output to sell the idea to the client. Once the client OKs the idea, the designer locates the artwork/photos for the piece and scans them into the document, adjusting for colour balance/contrast etc.; The copy for the piece is imported from a WP document and text attributes are set. Once the pieces are all in place, final proofs are printed for client approval (B&W or Color) at 300 dpi. Any colours in the piece are specified as PMS colours and translated to CYMK values by the software. Once the client OKs the proofs, the piece is output to film on a Lino (which requires special screen angles and frequencies) via a RIP. Colour proofs (Chromalins) are made from the Lino film as a last proof check before the print run. If OK, the plates are made and the job printed. The SL difference: (According to the information in the manual parts I've seen and my own experience so far) Drawing up the comps and getting approval is the same. SL supports all the good 300dpi colour proof printers and if one can't be found, you can export the page as a Postscript graphic and have it printed at any service bureau that has a colour proof printer. The only trouble seems to be in specifying the colours to be used. According to the manual, SL saves all colours in the RGB system and calculates CYM values from the RGB values, adding black only as a "calculated value" derived from the RGB intensities. What this means is that you cannot enter a colour as a CYMK value, only as an RGB value. Now for most amateurs, as long as the printed colour is close to the colour they saw on their monitors, they'll be happy. However, for professional designers, exact colour matching is imperative, that's why the Pantone system was created. Monitor colours are too inconsistant due to phosphor changes and colour balance settings inherent in every monitor without software control of these variables. Now, when doing 4-colour work, designers specify their colours as CYMK %s ( ie; C @100% / Y @0% / M @63% / K @ 37%) so that the software has an easier time doing the separation. There are many references in use that give the exact CYMK %s for each colour displayed and the standard is the Pantone to CYMK translator swatch book, which gives you the best of both worlds. At the moment, scanning is possible using the Microtek 3000z directly with the German driver program or by porting it over from a service bureau network for a fee. Mark at EpiSet just happens to have a 3000ZS (the one with the SCSI port) so if you can find that scanner support driver, we'll try it out directly into the Mega. The TIFF I scanned for my job was scanned by a Mac, edited in Photoshop and output to a PC as a TIFF file of 1.6 Mb. We then hooked the PC and Mega up with a NullModem cable and shot it across at 19,200 baud. Works great. When I get my MultiSync monitor I'll try playing with the image colours myself, but for now it's easier on the Mac's high rez screen. I would reccommend 26 Mb of RAM to anyone working with colour. My TIFF was only 3x5" @ 250 dpi and it was 1.6 Meg! At 400 dpi it was 7 Meg! I am told that a letter size photo at 300 dpi is about 22 Mb ( sheesh) The print function doesn't seem to like working from Virtual Memory either, it ends up dividing up the page into 1000s of parts and crashing. You need at least 500k of real RAM left to print in any reasonable time (especially @ 1270 dpi). Summary: A very impressive program overall and quite addictive once you let it spoil you. The colour issue is a big one though. Pantone support is a must (or a module that lets you enter CYMK values and have them translated to the SL system) Scanning needs to be supported, I mean why support CYMK printers if you can't get the image in the first place? The ability to output to Postscript format is a stop-gap solution that will keep a lot of smaller users happy until they can afford their own color printers and Separation Modules. The Vector Dataformer should be somehow registered like the CG fonts. By allowing PS output, you could make pirate copies very useable, something you wouldn't want to do; So I'd keep a tight rein on that particular module. All in all, the potential here is incredible. The fact that you can do so many things from within the main program gives a whole new meaning to the words user-friendly. I get annoyed when I "have" to go to Outline to do something now...talk about spoiled! Talk at you soon; P.S. Oh, about the radiused corner raster boxes. My buddy with Pagestream II was showing off how he could control the radii in two dimensions with this fancy dialog box. I had to admit that SL was lame in this area until I realized that I could make one just as quick using the Vector drawing tools with even more control... Shut him up I did, yessir! (Nathan again...As I mentioned earlier, I am not yet qualified to comment on matters colour in nature. I do know a few things but readily admit and look forward to the lots remaining for me to learn. It is entirely possible that the above information is not entirely accurate but it is certainly clear as far as the author understands it. In the thought that I'm not the only one with a thing or two to learn, I have taken the opportunity to share this file with you.) Nathan Potechin September 9, 1991 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 2 Mon Sep 09, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:47 EDT Lemme guess, Nathan...Your beta-tester is a CANADIAN? Thought so. I'm wondering just how important it will be for me to upgrade to S (SL would seem to be much more than I need). I have 1.09N and am using it at least several hours a week, happily I might add, but I am not yet exploiting its full potential. Will I really be ready for S when it is released? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 3 Mon Sep 09, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 20:00 EDT Dorothy, excuse the intercept...I had the same question in mind...until I got hold of Calamus S. I believe that once you see its capabilities, you will FIND uses for those features! (And yes, I am a Canadian - How 'bout those Blue Jays!) Back to Nathan.... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 4 Mon Sep 09, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 21:35 EDT Big YES, Dorothy. :-) S does everything 1.09N does and then some, but it does it so much better. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 5 Mon Sep 09, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 22:05 EDT Nathan, what if the user were only interested in color text or line art? Such as VP an PM support currently, instead of buying the (expensive?) color module with full TIFF support. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 6 Tue Sep 10, 1991 A.HEYDUK1 [JEDRUS] at 02:27 EDT Nathan, While playing with the demo program, I noticed that Calamus in its new incarnation is definitely slower in terms of displaying graphics files (for example, when zooming in on such file). Is this an indication of the fact that Calamus S will run on a standard Mega ST (in my case, equipped with T-16), but really needs something faster and better to work to its full potential? How necessary is an upgrade of a 68000 system? Jedrus ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 7 Tue Sep 10, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 10:27 EDT ASX...I am not certain what exact capabilities will be included in Calamus S yet. It simply has not been finalized. But I do know that VP and PM costs about the same as SL and there is absolutely no comparison between the capabilites. :-) Jedrus...Some things are inevitably slower because of the colour information now. May I suggest that you play with the caches as they definitely make a difference. This is Calamus SL related. If the colour info is not part of S then you will not notice any slow down in speed. All that said, if you are making a living using Calamus or DynaCADD, for that matter, then I always recommend that you use the best that you can afford. I should be the first kid on my block to own and use one of the new 68030 boards for an example and I can't wait. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 8 Tue Sep 10, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 22:14 EDT Thanks.. I still agree, neither VP nor PM are challengers, but Quark and FrameMaker ARE. Unfortunately I've not been able to use them. Can you pass along a suggestion: use the 68881 and/or 68882 for vector operations, it will be SO MUCH faaaster! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 9 Tue Sep 10, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:48 EDT From what I gathered from my talk with Pierre, it DOES use the 882' in the TT in some of the graphics module functions. They used Turbo C and the things that required calls to the floating point library end up using the 882' if it's present. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 10 Wed Sep 11, 1991 G.T.GRAY [Gary Gray] at 20:02 EDT Yes SL is amazingly fast on the TT in 256 color mode. Load up lots of 256 color GIFs, lots of CalVector graphics, put them all over the page, the sucker just takes it all in stride like it weren't nothing at all. Heh and on the Matrix card set the virtual mode to 1180x880, you got yourself on serious serious publishing workstation. And I do mean workstation. Thanks Gary Gray Megabyte Plus ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 11 Wed Sep 11, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:28 EDT Dang... what about us poor 881 users?! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 12 Sun Sep 15, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:03 EDT This virtual memory thing is the cat's meow!!!! Now there's no limit to document size...except your Hdrive. I have a VMEM folder, and set it to 10Megs, and to only "clear" on termination. It's darn fast. Whatever DMC has done here, should be used by other vendors, slick is the word. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 13 Sun Sep 15, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 01:40 EDT Jim, slick is Calamus SL, running on your TURBO030 board at 40 Mhz right now, at the Glendale show. Pop on over and check it out :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 14 Sun Sep 15, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 10:42 EDT Shhhh, Jim. Those other guys might be listening. Follow the ATARI Code of Conduct and don't let anyone know how much better our stuff is. ;-) BTW, why set the VM to 10 megs? Let it use all available space on the HD. Since you have set it to clear on quit, you don't lose storage space. Hi Nathan, how busy is it there? Do you bring extra Kleenex to wipe up all the drool? And did you say 40 Mhz? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 15 Sun Sep 15, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 15:40 EDT Lou, I set it to "zero" on exit, sorry. It is much faster than having it create-on-entry...delete-on-exit the VM stuff. I also will wait a few weeks before letting anything diddle my hard drive voraciously (I'm a recent HDrive fiaco survivor). Besides, 10M is plenty...for a total of 14Megs!!!!! I had no problem taking my biggest demo file, and merging it into a 100 page document (100 of the same pages)...try THAT with 1.09N!!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 16 Sun Sep 15, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 20:25 EDT I can sure relate to your HD apprehension... I have had my share too :-) But I have used the VM for two months now without a hitch. BTW, Nathan's post from Glendale says he is running at TT030 at 40Mhz - how is that possible? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 17 Sun Sep 15, 1991 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 21:55 EDT Lou Rocha, If I remember it right Nathan revered to an 030 at 40 Mhz not necessarily a TT (Can you say David S..) Anyway I can't get too excited about 20% difference in processor speed, when so many other things slow a machine down. However as I understand it David may be beating some of those other things. >> Joe Meehan << Don't forget to send in your shareware payments if you use shareware! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 18 Mon Sep 16, 1991 S.CEROVICH [Page Design] at 00:37 EDT SL's VM really is the cat's meow. I was working on an update to the CFRG (ahhh, Todd...) last night and hit 8 meg.s worth of fonts in a single file. You've no idea how great it is to be able to just keep on plugging away instead of having to save every 3,4 or 5 pages as a seperate file. Cheers Sandy ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 19 Mon Sep 16, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:44 EDT Just for the record, Nathan reverted to an 030 other than the TT...due to an incompatibility between the TT and the overhead projector device...and it was none other than a TURBO030 from Fast Technology!! Running at 40Mhz in cache- only trim. A 32bit ram version was present for pictures too ;-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 20 Mon Sep 16, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 19:34 EDT Sorry Joe, I missed your point. And what shareware are you referring to? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 21 Mon Sep 16, 1991 B.COMEAU at 21:25 EDT Nathan, I was going to put this into GEnie mail, but perhaps the same question has crossed other peoples mind as well, so I thought it might be better in this topic. I am interested in the upgrade procedure with regard to Oline and/or the Font editor. Going from 1.09N to S or SL is straight forward enough- you pay your money and you get the new version. What interests me now is the possibility of a different sort of upgrade procedure to allow the most flexibility in choosing from the wide variety of modules that one will be presented with when upgrading to to the S version of Calamus. I believe that if I had the opportunity of starting out fresh and choosing to buy the Calamus products from the wide variety that will soon be available I would be doing it differently this time around. For instance I have discovered that to even modify a font is an exacting and time consuming business; let alone creating one from scratch. In short I rarely use the Font editor. As for Oline, it would appear that any upgrade is well down the road(time wise) as you are all very busy getting the new stuff out. Further, it may just be that the vector line module is more suited to my uses than a new Oline- I don't know. My idea on the matter was that maybe you could consider assigning an upgrade value (or trade-in allowance) to each of the 3 current products offered and then allow us to apply that value to whatever new products are offered. It seems like a great idea to me, but no doubt there are things I haven't considered- is this a viable idea?? I would love to be able to upgrade to S and apply the value of Oline and the Font editor to the Dataformer module, PKS, and the Vector line art module. As for other users- Am I the only one thinking along these lines?? If it's a bad idea say so, but in any event I would be curious to hear some other comments, especially Nathan's. thnx, brian comeau ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 22 Mon Sep 16, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 22:10 EDT As Jim mentioned, :-), I was using Jim Allens TURBO030 running at 40 Mhz, without Fast RAM and it was REAL fast and a real pleasure to use. I can hardly wait to try it with FAST RAM. :-) Dave also has a board and tends to be more well known :-) but do NOT discount Jims product. That would be a mistake in my humble opinion. :-) Brian...Outline ART will become Outlien Art 2.0. Type Art will certainly replace the Font Editor. That is the upgrade path for those items. Dataformer will cost, as will the Vector Line Art module. Sorry. But the concept remains. I will have approximately 24 seperate modules for S/SL within the next 12 months. WYNIWYG (What You Need is What You Get). ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 23 Tue Sep 17, 1991 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 22:02 EDT "Outline ART will become Outlien Art 2.0" Hmmmmmm "Outlien"? Is it going to be THAT expensive? Is the "lien" only going to be on your auto, or your house? :-) Wayne (Now where did I put that spell-checker?) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 24 Wed Sep 18, 1991 CAPT.SPOCK at 00:32 EDT Hey! I was wondering....perhaps I missed it, but has Calamus S been released? Is there a demo available (I just looked at the SoftSource, and couldn't find it)? I have 1.09N and got an announcement about several months ago detailing some info on Calamus S and SL, and I've heard nothing since. After reading this base, I'm, like, DROOLING to get Calamus S (I ran out of kleenex).....please, please, PLEASE let me know what the deal is..... >>>Captain Spock (Kerim) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 25 Wed Sep 18, 1991 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 04:18 EDT Lou Rocha, I think you got my point, but you may have thought it was directed to you personally. It was (and is) directed to all users. Some users think they have no obligation to send in shareware payments and others (including myself) may forget to get around to it. >> Joe Meehan << To All: Don't forget to send in your shareware payments if you use shareware! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 26 Wed Sep 18, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 08:37 EDT Alien Art, yes, thats the ticket. :-) Alien Art 2.0\ UnAlienated Art 2.0 and the beat goes on :-) Sorry Kerim, Calamus SL wil be released first and the manual for that is still not complete. (SIGH) I'm with Joe, if you use Shareware, please send in shareware payments. If you are using commercial, you'd better have paid for it. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 27 Wed Sep 18, 1991 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 15:13 EDT So Nathan, what should those of us that are patiently waiting for CALAMUS S expect for a release date? Also, although CALAMUS SL *is* directed at color operations, what can we expect in the way of using CALAMUS SL for monochrome style work? -- Dave St. Martin Frankfurt ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 28 Wed Sep 18, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 19:34 EDT It was always the intent to release Calamus SL initially as we already had the very excellent 1.09N. :-) Once the manual had been completed for SL, as well as a solid, working program, we could then concentrate on S. The thought was that our customers that were desperately in need, were after color seperation capabilities first and foremost. As it stands now, I expect, barring real unforeseen circumstances, to be shipping Calamus SL within a month. The delay lies in the manual itself. But I will state publicly, :-), this manual is excellent!! Calamus SL has no problem performing in black and white or grey scale, none at all. Hope this helps. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 29 Thu Sep 19, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 01:59 EDT Nathan, I assumed SL was almost identical to S except for color support. Is there more to it then that? You know what happens when you ass-u-me...:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 30 Fri Sep 20, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:32 EDT More ... or less. :-) Joey, you are correct. The only other difference will be the modules that will be included with Calamus SL ie; the Vector Line Art module will be an optional purchase if you own Calamus S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 31 Sat Sep 21, 1991 A.HEYDUK1 [JEDRUS] at 01:03 EDT Nathan, I'm sure that has been asked numerous times. Yet, consider this scenario: someone has a mono Atari system and wants to go to color in future. If she or he upgrades to SL (rather than S), will the performance of the program on mono be exactly the same as that of Calamus S. I'm trying to determine if I can work for a while with SL on a mono system without any loss of speed in comparison to S. Jedrus ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 32 Sat Sep 21, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 11:04 EDT The answer is that if you are using SL on a mono system, the fact remains that it will still be able to assign colors both on the screen and for output. You will see shades of grey. The performance will not change at all. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 34 Sun Sep 22, 1991 S.CEROVICH [Page Design] at 04:41 EDT Capt. Spock: "ISD" is the proper E_Mail address. Did you by some chance insert any periods? That's where I send and it does get to Nathan... %^) Don't expect any mention of price from ISD until the program is right on the verge of shipping. Tooooooo many changes take place between beta and actual shipping (you'd be surprised at the way the program has changed since the original betas) to even guestimate a price. Live long and prosper....... Sandy ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 35 Sun Sep 22, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:34 EDT Kerim, the only price that has been mentioned is a US $69.95 upgrade charge from Calamus 1.09N to Calamus S. The rest is as Sandy said. And ISD is definitely my EMail address. I know it for a fact cause I'm getting dozens of letters a day. (sigh) :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 38 Mon Sep 23, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 14:21 EDT Sandy and Joey, did you know that there is a command in EMAIL that allows the addessee to restrict letters from specified other addressees? :-) Me either, but it would make a great option. :-) Hehehe ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 47 Sun Oct 06, 1991 B.COMEAU at 17:26 EDT Nathan/anyone you likely saw my comments in the Calamus topic with regard to the placement accuracy of 1.09n. Just being curious I gave it a try with the SL demo. PLEASE! someone else try placing something where you want it and printing it out and then tell me that I just did something wrong. I set up and 8.5 x 11 page and drew a text box so that I would have 1 inch margins top and sides and then imported some ASCII and printed it out. The side margin came out at over 1 1/4 and the top margin was over 1 1/2 !! I had the ruler clicked on so I know I was in the right measurement system (it showed the page as 8.5 x 11). I set the text frame using the using the x,y coordinates so it should have been accurate. I don't really want to know how to do it in the demo, I would just like someone who positively knows what they are doing it correct to give it a try (preferably someone with a deskjet 500) and see if the printout comes a little closer to what it on screen. A text frame set up similiarly in 1.09n is only about 1/16 inch out, top or side margin. Nathan, is just that the driver for the deskjet nees some fine tuning?? or are other printers as much of a problem. thnx brian comeau (a little concerned) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 48 Sun Oct 06, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:41 EDT Brian, you might want to try these experiments using a box frame instead of text. I've found that my DJ produces printouts that are consistently slightly offset from the parameters on the screen by doing this. To compensate, I simply move the entire "used" area of the page slightly into the margin and it prints the way I want it...Better to have it slightly off on the screen than slightly off in the hardcopy. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 49 Sun Oct 06, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 20:27 EDT Blame the printer drivers Brian, not you. As Dorothy mentioned, thanks Dorothy, try grouping the frames and moving them over slightly until you establish the exact positioning. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 50 Mon Oct 07, 1991 B.COMEAU at 22:16 EDT Dorothy, thnx I had already resorted to exactly what you suggested, and it does, of course, work. The offset in printing has never caused me a problem that I couldn't overcome with trial and error and manual placement of objects. I was just more concerned that the placement accuracy was not more precise to begin with, oh well, bye Nathan,thnx great to hear that it is a 'fixable' annoyance that will be minimized with S; the waiting must be making me edgy! So edgy in fact that I slid over to the Soft Logik roundtable the other day in preparation to buy something new- boy are they ever having problems with that item! Guess I will just keep waiting. thnx again ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 51 Mon Oct 07, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 23:13 EDT Please realize that the number one reason that Calamus S or SL has not yet shipped, is that I will NOT ship it until it is solid enough in my opinion. Please be patient, it will be worth the wait. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 56 Mon Oct 21, 1991 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 01:27 EDT Nathan & all: A question concerning hardware "requirements" for Calamus S/SL: I'm running a 1040ST with 4 megs at standard speed and the demo is REAL slow updating screens & such. Is the working version going to be like this too? At the speed that the demo runs at, I don't see how I can keep the same hardware configuration. I'm looking into upgrading to a Mega 4 STE. Is this going to be enough? How far can I go with 16 mhz? Is the TT going to be what it takes to get this thing running fast enough to be effecient? Please comment 'till your heart's content. Jeff Sims... Looking for answers :^) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 57 Mon Oct 21, 1991 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 13:09 EDT Jeff, remember that the demo you downloaded is a demo of Calamus SL. This is the one that contains the necessary code to produce full color output to the monitor (depending on your system's ability to display it). In Calamus SL, the text can be assigned a colour value based on RGB, CMY, CMYK, or Greyscale (and other colour models as they become available in modular form). So can any other object, for that matter. The slowdown you're seeing is the fact that SL has to assign those values even if you choose "Black" as the colour. So manipulating plain old black text in Calamus SL will be as slow as manipulating 24-bit colour text. And your 16-bit computer is too slow to do that; a TT or better would be recommended. However, here's where the S version comes in: it's functionally identical to SL, except for the fact that it only contains ONE colour model: Greyscale. Because Calamus S does not have to worry about so much colour, it's much faster. (Note that SL does not speed up if you manually choose the Greyscale model over CMYK: since you could be changing back at any time, SL still has to keep all that colour overhead attached to all its objects) If I had a TT sitting on my desk, and were going to be spending a lot of time in Calamus (an extremely likely combination of possibilities, by the way), I would want BOTH Calamus S and SL on my hard disk. I would create LAYOUTS in S, and add COLOUR in SL, once I was happy with the greyscale version of my document. It's possible that the RELEASE version of Calamus SL (as opposed to the demo) will have a switch to essentially turn it into Calamus S until you've concluded your layout work, but if not, perhaps Nathan could comment on whether SL owners will be able to obtain a copy of S as well in order to get things done a little faster? I'd hate to make a permanent choice between COLOUR and FAST. Jeff, I have a feeling that you'll probably want to be upgrading your system anyway. The number one flat out best value in system enhancement currently is Jim Allen's T20 accelerator. Put one of these in your system, and you'll NEVER want to hear the expression "Eight Megahertz" again. But TT's are getting reasonable, and available. You should make your decision based on what you need now, and in the future. Perhaps the extra colours and resolution, 32-bit data path, RAM expansion, and other features (great keyboard, fast internal hard drive, SCSI port, etc.) might suggest a TT rather than expanding your current system. SL in FABULOUS in TT Medium!!! Ron Grant (GXR Systems, Vancouver, B.C.) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 58 Mon Oct 21, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 21:00 EDT Jeff, the T20 can help alot, we will also have a little 1040able 030 board in a couple months that will go even further. If you are looking toward color work, you may want to consider upgrading your system to something that can take a video enhancement board, or try the Wuztek 1040 graphics board when it comes out in a month or so. It plugs into the shifter socket of your 1040, gives you more res and more colors, and it'll be fairly economical. I think you'd find Sl livable with a T20 though, and Calamus S will fly!! Just as 1.09N does now. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 60 Mon Oct 21, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:39 EDT Yeah, get a Mega STE and buy a video card with an 030 board. We're approaching the skies (nah, approaching Heaven would be a TT040). ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 61 Tue Oct 22, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 03:31 EDT Well said again Ron. Thank you. Good thought ASX. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 64 Tue Oct 22, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:15 EDT Ah yes, time to rethink. If HP indeed will upgrade my trusty Deskjet Plus to the new color deskjet for $450 and ISD produces (as they will) a super driver for it, and Jim offers us loyal T-xx owners a nice little discount on his upcoming mini-030 board... and my company stays in business, I remain employed and business picks up a bit... Nathan, send out your customer flyer and let's see how fast I can convince myself that I need SL instead of S! Question: With SL can I do the majority of the work on my Moniterm, then do the color adjustments on a normal ST color monitor - in other words, does it display in ST medium or just in TT medium? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 66 Tue Oct 22, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 21:04 EDT Calamus SL requires a minimum of 640 x 350. Lou, on east coast time with my east coast account...on the west coast. :-) Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 67 Wed Oct 23, 1991 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 03:41 EDT Lou, I'm new to this topic and I have to admit that I'm finding it hard to know some of the abbreviations that are used here (I'm also new to desktop publishing). You were making a joke about HP users turning green? Is this a reference to HP laser printer owners and, if so, what exactly do you mean? (I'm serious about this question. I'm trying to decide whether to go with an Atari 605 laser printer -- if I can ever find one at a dealer on actual display) vs. the HP LaserJet III. So, if you're communicating something about HP lasers, I'd like to know what it is. ALSO, I'm trying to figure out if the SL version is a NEW REPLACEMENT for a previous version, or is it more like we have a choice of one version or the other (sort of like going with a Mac Classic vs. a Mac II, pardon the hardware analogy). What are the differences between the SL version and, I guess, the S version? Which version would I get if I'm working off a standard SM124 mono monitor? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Wednesday, October 23, 1991 12:25:30 am ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 69 Wed Oct 23, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:32 EDT OK, Nathan, that's a major consideration. If SL needs TT medium to display in color then the Mega/Moniterm/-030 accelerator path becomes much less attractive. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 70 Wed Oct 23, 1991 K.HEINRICHS [K.Heinrichs] at 19:08 EDT Nathan, When the S/SL versions of Calamus are released, will the 68030 versions be released at the same time? Sorry if you have answered this already but, has there been a price set for upgrading from Calamus 1.09N to SL. If a person has O-Line and the Font Editor will this make any difference in the upgrade price or will they have separate upgrade paths? K.Heinrichs ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 71 Wed Oct 23, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 19:27 EDT Jason, S is exactly like SL except I believe it's B/W only. It will probable be fine for what you want to do plus you can upgrade to SL later if you need color. Theres a demo of SL in the library if you want to check it out. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 72 Wed Oct 23, 1991 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 20:16 EDT Ron & Jim, Thanks for the info concerning SPEED with S/SL. I'm definitely going to be upgrading my hardware in the next few weeks. How much is the 20 mhz accelerator & how does it compare to the 16 mhz accelerators? Is the 20 mhz unit available now? What benefit is there in going with the Mega STe as opposed to the 1040 STe with 4 megs & an accelerator? Will the additional ports on the Mega be important in the future? Thanks again for all your help. Jeff Sims Hurry up S/SL release date!!! :^} ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 73 Wed Oct 23, 1991 B.COMEAU at 20:51 EDT "Calamus SL requires a minimum of 640 x 350" Just when I thought I had it figured out........ 1. so you are saying that SL will NOT run on anything except a TT or an ST/Mega/STe that has been modified with an aftermarket color board??? yes?? no?? 2. the only way to achieve color output to a service bureau is with the SL version???? yes?? no??? I hope that I have misunderstood some of this and the acquisition of color capabilities won't prove to be that expensive. SOFTWARE UPGRADE + VIDEO BOARD + NEW MONITOR + DATAFORMER MODULE = a couple thousand dollars. ciao, ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 74 Wed Oct 23, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:00 EDT On the low-end color video front, the Wuztek folks will have a board that meets the needs of SL and is very reasonable. If you need color, and you need speed, and you own a MegaST, you'll find the Turbo030/ISAC/17" monitor approach is cheaper than upgrading to a TT, and FASTER, and with more pixels on screen. The TT is running on average: $1499 TT/2-80, $299 2 Meg ST ram, $599 4 Meg TT ram, $599 monitor, which is $2996. A Mega upgrade is running: $1499 T030/4, $599 ISAC, $1350 17" Toshiba color monitor. Or $3450, and you get 2x the TT speed, and 60% more pixels, on a bigger better, 17" monitor. And using a Wuztek color board with a Sony 1304 you drop down to around $2200. So if you have a Mega now, you have some nice options. The TURBO20 board is $329 and makes the current 1.09N scream. An adapter to the STE is $49 extra. Hope that helps ;-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 75 Thu Oct 24, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 06:43 EDT Glad to respond Jason... My joke about the HP users has to do with the speed of the printer. It has been known to take up to 20 minutes to output a single page using the DESKJET from the 1040 (depending on graphics and layout). The SLM 605 or 804, outputs in seconds ! To be fair, the HP does a beautiful job of rastering (shading) where the 300 dpi Atari laser is very good, but, in my opinion, not professional. For that you need Linotronic (1270 dpi) output. With regard to Calamus S and SL...S is the monochrome version - an upgrade from 1.09N. SL will allow creation of 4 color separation documents. In addition, SL is really more than an upgrade, marking the transformation of Calamus from Desktop Publishing program to a DTP system. This is the result of its new modular design, allowing users to purchase add-on modules that work RIGHT IN Calamus. Some of these include a souped-up text editor, a vector graphics editor, a line-tracing module, a module for defining raster point settings. There are many more in the works; some are already in beta-testing. In my opinion, most users will love the extra power of SL, even if they intend to do mostly monochrome work. At this time, the focus is on the preparation of the SL manual and final release version. As is ISD's reputation, beta-testing has been extremely thorough. The big event should happen RSN (Real Soon Now). ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 76 Thu Oct 24, 1991 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 16:11 EDT 640x350 is less than monochrome on an ST. I bet you can run Calamus SL on a Mega ST or Mega STE with a Monochrome Monitor. -- John ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 77 Thu Oct 24, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 18:42 EDT The SL Demo runs fine in Mono. It also runs on the Moniterm and TTM194. It works in color on a normal ST of you use Monster. I don't think you could actually do real work but if you want to check something out thats aleady in color, it works. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 78 Thu Oct 24, 1991 A.VALENT [Mike] at 19:33 EDT Lou, the DJ+ which I have or the DJ 500 may not be laser-fast, but... with the right printer driver, speed is better than respectable. I've been doing 'targeted' mailouts in batches of 100 using Calamus and the DJ+ and have found that to be quite acceptable. This using one piece that began with about 80 frames and the other about 110 frames. A lot of detail (a critic would say 'overly busy') in both. Using a Mega 4 with T-16 and the DJ+, print per-page time on the one is 1:10 and the other 1:17. That's printing as fast as the DJ+ will physically run. ST mono's fine for SL, John. My concern was with adjusting colors if I wanted to produce a color .CDK. I know nothing about that, so maybe it's something that you develop from setting color print tables in the program rather than eyeballing anyway. Wonder if WuzTEK's new color board will fit in a Mega along with a Moniterm board? Hmmm... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 79 Fri Oct 25, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:21 EDT I do believe it will ;-) Imagine that!! I have been playing with a new Toshiba 17" monitor today, NICE ;-) Highly recommended for use with the ISAC/ALBERTT...or even a TT in general, it displays all TT modes except TT HIGH. $1350+shipping from Fast Technology. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 80 Fri Oct 25, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 00:30 EDT K.Heinrichs...Calamus SL will run on either ST or TT. The price still has not been set. Neither Outline Art or the Font Editor will affect the upgrade cost to Calamus SL but they will affect the upgrade to Outline Art 2.0 amd Type Art. B.Comeau...sorry, my fault. As has been pointed out, Calamus SL requires a minimum of 640 x 350 to be viewed on a color monitor. It will run on the monochrome monitor no problem. Calamus S will not be able to automatically generate 4 color seperation. That requires SL. Well said Lou, thank you. Same to Joey and John. :-) Nathan @ ISD at Comdex ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 83 Fri Oct 25, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 10:53 EDT The company that makes the tube I know not the name, but it's none of the big names, but all the big names use it ;-) The unit does 30Khz...65Khz, so it handles VGA (50-100hz non-interlaced) up to 1280x1024 (60hz non-interlaced). The flat-square tube is remarkable, you really can fill the entire screen with undistorted image. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 84 Fri Oct 25, 1991 B.COMEAU at 20:43 EDT ISD Re: resolution for SL thnx for the reply Nathan, however I still don't understand. I have been running the SL demo in monochrome so I know that works, so my next question is can I assign colors to a file, while running in monochrome, that will print out when sent to a service bureau?? While the requests I get for a color poster or brochure are infrequent, it would be nice to have some minimal ability to do color-- either assigning numerical color values from a chart, or using existing STe resolutions, or something. The limited requests I get for color don't justify a video board/monitor upgrade. thnx ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 85 Fri Oct 25, 1991 R.GILLIES at 23:49 EDT Nathan, Calamus is reported to run fine in the MultiGem shell ( F(For those who don't know, it's a multitasking shell that works with the most programs), and I was wondering if the Calamus programmers could make the print dialog box could be re-written to allow background printing while working concurrently with other programs? Can this be done by your staff, or, would you suggest this to the programmers in Germany? Thanx in advance, ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 87 Sat Oct 26, 1991 R.NOAK at 01:27 EDT Whoa Nathan! Outline 2.0? I thought that was just an idea you were kicking around? Is this close, or still in the "planning stage"? 'Cmon, fill us in. Randy ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 88 Sat Oct 26, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:42 EDT Joey, I've fallen in love with it...but I'm going to save myself for the 21" model ;-) It's shipping out Sat, for Mon/Tues delivery...nice, real nice. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 89 Sat Oct 26, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:44 EDT BTW, their are two cables with it, and you'll need BOTH. The BNC is needed for the TTs hidensity DB15, while the DB9 is need for the Albert down the road. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 90 Sat Oct 26, 1991 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 04:31 EDT B.COMEAU, you can do what you require even with your current copy of 1.09N, or with Calamus S. It's called spot colour, and it's easy. Keep a Pantone colour patch book on your desk. Do all your work in black and white, including proofs. If you require colour comps you could use one of these new spot colour add-on systems, like that Letraset doohickey whose name escapes me. Once you're satisfied with your layout (in black and white, mentally adding colours according to your patch book) simply seperate the document by hand. There's no need to do a CMYK seperation, just select the object you want coloured, clipboard it to a second page in the file, print both pages, and take it to the printer. Tell the printer that you want page 1 in black, and page 2 in Pantone 607, or whatever. This is really, really easy, and works just fine. Just make sure you manually add crop marks to the document, and your printer will have no trouble lining things up so that it looks perfect. Ron Grant (GXR Systems, Vancouver, B.C.) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 92 Sat Oct 26, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 13:33 EDT Thanks for responsing to B.Comeau Ron. Bob... the problem with that is the lack of memory in the Atari laser printers. As we are sending a full page requiring 1 MByte of RAM FOR the printer, I suspect it would cause more aggravation than it was worth to allow background printing and continue working, especially considering the usual speed of Calamus output Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 93 Sat Oct 26, 1991 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 14:11 EDT Is there any kind of doc file containing instructions of any kind to help how to use the Calamus demo? If I'm a new user (meaning, I've never used the program before), are there any directions to consult? I can run the program but once it's on screen, it's a bit like Greek to me. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 94 Sun Oct 27, 1991 B.COMEAU at 01:59 EST Ron @ GXRSYS re:spot color thnx for the reply, something to think about and ultimately give a try to, much appreciated. Bye the way I notice that you are Vancouver based, I am in Edmonton, does anyone in Vancouver have the Calamus Lino interface, could I modem a file for printing- just curious. thnx ciao, brian comeau ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 95 Sun Oct 27, 1991 T.KAY3 [TKAY] at 14:26 EST Lou Rocha... Please take it easy on the HP DeskJet folks, despite the fact that they "...don't support Atari computers.." in their customer service department. Sure early versions of the DeskJet were slow... excruciatingly so. But, the nice folks at HP have upgraded the DJ's output. Today's HP DeskJet 500 is fast and has an excellent output at 300 dpi, "camera ready" according to the people that print my personal stuff. Take a look at the DJ 500 and/or contact HP about the upgrade that is available for older DJ's, the cost is reasonable. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 96 Mon Oct 28, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 02:10 EST About that multitasking, I think DMC will do that with Atari's multitasking TOS (or whatever it is called and whenever it is due.) I'm personally waiting for that one.. and S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 97 Mon Oct 28, 1991 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 03:31 EST Yes, Vancouver's Laser's Edge Service Bureau has a Mega/DMC combination hooked up to their L200P, L300, L500 or L330, depending on your needs. You can call them at (604)662-3774, ask to speak to Andy Curtis. May I just say that I cannot guarantee you will get any sort of acceptable results until you speak to Andy Curtis. He's the guy who knows how to run Calamus. Everyone else there is pretty Mac/IBM oriented (read closed-minded). Ron Grant (GXR Systems, Vancouver, B.C.) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 98 Mon Oct 28, 1991 CHERRY.FONTS at 08:30 EST Brian Comeau, Like Ron says, call Andy at Lasers Edge. Accept no substitutes! Andy's a good guy, he'll take good care of you. To all; When modemming files to Laser's Edge (or any service bureau) remember to always specify the following details in a voice phone call or fax before actually transferring the ARC'ed file to their BBS: - Mention that it is a "Calamus/Atari document" so that they don't try feeding it through a Mac to a PostScript RIP. - Document filename(s) to print. - Where the fonts are located: (supply them ALL within the archive you transfer via modem.) Don't forget any! - Resolution (Usually 1270 or 2540 dpi, though there are other options.) - Output type (usually paper-positive or film-negative depending on your print requirements.) Ask your printer if you're unsure. - Whether you require RUSH service (at an added expense.) - Any shipping/payment details not previously determined. All of their numbers are: Voice: 604-662-3774 Fax: 604-681-2300 Modem: 604-681-3278 ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 99 Mon Oct 28, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 19:03 EST Dear TKAY, I stand corrected. I am very glad that the HP speed has improved and will pass that news on to some Calamus users in Toronto who would love to access this improvement. Did you have a contact for further information? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 100 Sat Nov 02, 1991 T.KAY3 [TKAY] at 06:21 EST Lou, I don't have a specfic "contact" other than HP, you might suggest they try HP Direct Marketing Div. at (800) 5378 8787 (U.S.) or the store(s) from which they purchased their deskjets. Regards ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 101 Sat Nov 02, 1991 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 13:26 EST Ron @ GRXSYS: I think the Letraset doohickey is either Omnicrom or Color Tag, both of which perform essentially the same function. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 102 Sat Nov 02, 1991 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 13:42 EST Nathan! HELP! We're desparate! We've been playing around with the S/SL demo & WE WANT IT NOW! OR ELSE! :^) But seriously! I was just playing around with the text runaround functions & I can't wait to use them in my work -- they're great! This demo is really the ultimate tease! How 'bout putting a little pressure on those folks working on the manual or whatever's holding this thing up. ;^) We know how you like your programs to be flawless & in a language that we all can speak, but hey, I'd be willing to learn a little German to get in on this power. Just had to get it out of my system, thanks for listening. Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 103 Sat Nov 02, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 17:36 EST Watch for our mailout leaving this coming week Jeff. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 113 Thu Nov 07, 1991 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 02:55 EST Nathan, You said something a couple days ago about PostScript support -- I think you said "not yet" or something like that. I REALLY am getting to where I need some hi-res output & what a bummer to have to modem my files to Canada or California (from Kansas!) to get it. The price is a little steep too, by the time you add everything up. There are PostScript service bureaus within walking distance of my house that will do pages for $4 to $8 (depending on quantity). I LOVE CALAMUS & what a drag it would be to have to buy PageStream or even go to Big Blue to get hi-res output. If PostScript isn't supported pretty soon, Calamus will be my 300 dpi program & I'd have to use PageStream to do any high- end stuff -- what a contradiction! Please speak words of comfort & encouragement, O mighty Nathan ;^) Thanks for your help. Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 114 Thu Nov 07, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 08:43 EST Jeff, PostScript has been on my LIST for 4 YEARS already. It's almost available. (SIGH!!) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 115 Thu Nov 07, 1991 R.GILLIES at 23:02 EST Hmmm....and how will that PostScript ability be handled by Calamus? Direct output to a PS printer, or, conversion of CDK's into PostScript EPS/PS files? It would be nice for SL to have the ability to read Adobe Type1 fonts _directly_ and write into the converted PS file directions to access the hinted printer font (downloaded into the printer or imagesetter). ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 118 Mon Nov 18, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 22:58 EST I just received the SL demo. My first reaction was, "..dang!" That means it was too slow and modular for me. But that is acceptable, after all, I did not have the manual and would get used to the software in a short time. I am excited about all the new features, however, my worst nightmare has come true: SL screwed up paragraph/text tagging. Or generally text editing. The other features like text flow, around pictures, etc. I like (most of my wish- list has been implemented.) I can't even enter text without going through a complex "create new style" process FOR EACH MINUTE VARIATION! At least 1.09N did not torture me in this regard, I could work around the paragraph/text tagging deficiency, but this... is bad! I think the supervisors/management at Ditek should conduct a survey, and do some research on basic DTP functionality/user interface for text handling. At least they could have tried out how VP, PM, QuarkX, FrameMaker, and PageStream managed text handling before releasing SL. It is not a mere coincidence that they are similiar in that regard. Oh well, it is too late now, and I resent that those who comforted me that SL will have text tagging did not enlighten me to the actuall process involved. That gentlemen, is very important. I'll still get S, the problem is (painfully) workable. But I'm not happy-- and more uncomprimising would dismiss it in favour of PageStream. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 119 Tue Nov 19, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 00:04 EST ASX, I wouldn't be to hard on SL yet!:-) Theres a command somewhere that turns off your complaint, I think. I thought it was a pain to but I turned it off so it worked just like Calamus. I just can't remember what I did.:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 120 Tue Nov 19, 1991 B.COMEAU at 00:55 EST ASX I too was horrified at the thought of having to use the style sheets all the time, but as Realm indicated it can be turned off. Choose the 'Text Style' menu icon, when this brings up its sub-menu then choose the right most icon called 'Style List', once this sub-menu (sub sub- menu ?!) is displayed you will note that at the bottom there are six small boxes, 5 of which have icons in them. Choose the upper left icon called 'Setup parameters'; this will bring up a dialogue box that allows you to 'change text style', if you choose 'internal' then the style sheets are turned off. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 121 Tue Nov 19, 1991 D.GORDON2 [DENNIS] at 01:19 EST ASX: Easily done. Enter the Text Style module and click on the Style List sub module on the far right. Then click on the Setup parameters icon on the upper left on the bottom. This brings up a dialogue box. Next to Change Text Style, click on Internal instead of List (the default) and your style changes will act just like good 'ol Calamus. Also remember that there's no text editor in the demo. Presumably PKS Write will make text tagging a lot simpler. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 123 Tue Nov 19, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 18:57 EST I've seen somewhere that Calamus SL could have HPGL drivers for a plotter, is that right? Just wondering, I'd love to print from Calamus to a plotter. Especially, an E-size plotter...ooooooh! I've imported some CVG's into DynaCADD for plotting but it isn't smart enough to trim the overlapping frames. Anything complex takes a lot of time to clean up. I could live without the raster effect if it would only transfer visible lines. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 124 Tue Nov 19, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 21:59 EST Wait for it Joey. I loaded in an HPGL just this afternoon, into Calamus SL. Julius had created and exported an HPGL file in DynaCADD and I brought it in to test and whammo, on my screen as large as life. If I remember, I'll test the export driver from SL tomorrow. And then there is Type Art of course with CAMM-1 drivers built-in etc.. Not long now. Nathan ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 125 Tue Nov 19, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 22:54 EST Not quite... I figured that one after uploading the post (I don't give up easy) but it is a work-around. You are not addressing the issue: paragraph tagging. I explored it some more and found that to be a hopless effort. I had better stick to VP for any text intensive documents. I was interested in the VP style of selecting paragraphs: just click on the text and the nearest paragraph is highlighted. Then you can adjust spacing, indents, kerning, leader tabs, etc. per individual tag. Moreover the procedure for "tagging" is much simpler, you simply have to click on the desired para. In this version, you have to select the text, add rulers, then edit style sheet, edit ruler, and then save the sytle. Justify why anyone how is sane should do this when another program is available?!!! I also liked the other features.. can't list them all but you know. However, the speed and VM is ridiculous. I loaded a *small* file created in 1.09N and with VM active in 1:1 view mode, I had ONLY 21K left and it was slow as a low powered machine running MS Windows 3. Removing VM only stopped the disk access and sped up slightly. But still the 1:1 zoom mode is no where near that of 1.09N. Another disappointment. On the positive side, I love the modular structure (although I belive some things could be made internal to increase speed), gradient curves, and graphics manipulation. And FINALLY the text import function correctly formats my WP files! Features galore.. but I damn sloow and a memory hog. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 126 Wed Nov 20, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:05 EST ASX...it's accelerator time!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 127 Wed Nov 20, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 00:48 EST The command is STYLE LIST PARAMETERS in the Text Style Module. You can revert to the old way of creating text styles using the old font and size icons. When you click the Change Text Style button, SL will prompt you that the defined "style" is not part of the current list and allow you to enter it in the list. When the Text Style dialog box appears, you can edit the style name to Title, Subhead, Body, etc. Dennis, Right ON. With PKS active, you can edit style buttons with a simple double click. You can also search and replace text styles currently in the text style list. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 128 Wed Nov 20, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 08:42 EST ASX...PKS Write will be shipping with Calamus S/SL. You will be able to do all your tagging requirements in PKS Write, fast and efficiently. Please do not forget that the demo you are using generates everything in color, wysiwyg, unlike other programs you keep mentioning. :-) The text is being worked on even as we speak and holds the highest priority. Speed WILL be improved in that regard. Jim's suggestion is also a valid one..accelerate.:-) Thanks for the info Lou. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 129 Wed Nov 20, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:35 EST Yeah, you're right Jim.. but even then it would be intolerable compared to other applications speed. Relativity. If I accelerate, programmers (universally speaking) find ways to write huge, slow code remember the XL days of tight code and miserly memory usage.. HEY!! Aren't you supposed to be working on a MSTE version?!? Sorry about that Nathn.. you understand I've been waiting for the program and when I read sooo many pros, and found a serious con.. well got upset. My point STILL remains, to modify a tag, I have to perform the following procedure: select the text to be modified, get it's style by [C][A]R, edit the font attributes, go to the spacing menu, and finally edit the spacing, etc. done. Whereas, others, and myself are used to: _single_ click on paragraph edit attributes edit spacing, etc. done Now why can't S/SL do it that way? It is simple and seems like WYSIWIG and color would have nothing to do with it. A few more notes: I know PKS will handle the text module, but a simple text editor like 1.09N's would be helpful in speeding up text input for other uses. Also, how about bringing back onscreen kerning 1.09N-stlye? I'm looking forward to a more mature program.. I've seen the evolution of Calamus and no doubt you will see to it that we finally get an easy-to-use program! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 130 Thu Nov 21, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:00 EST I always appreciate constructive criticism. Thank you for the input and YES, there will be an evolution. You can bet on it. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 131 Thu Nov 21, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 20:37 EST ASX, as I noted in earlier posts...SL flies with an accelerator board. May I recommend the T25 from Fast Technologies. It has made an incredible speed difference in both SL and 1.09. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 132 Fri Nov 22, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 03:01 EST Isn't the SL demo missing some of the advanced screen redraw routines? Thought I heard that a while back... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 133 Fri Nov 22, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:25 EST Reassuring to read your post Nathan.. I'm currently compiling a list of the "errors" and other oops stuff- if you're interested I could continue. Lou, I already have a Mega STE and am only interested in an 030 accelerator (if it's price is less than the difference between the TT and my MSTE.) Oh and one other note, the screen redraw time could be reduced if the programmers made use of an intermediate full _screen_ size buffer and blit it. The current, rewrite the text and redraw the images method is slow. Although it does save memory. How about an option?! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 134 Fri Nov 22, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 21:57 EST ASX...I definitely want your input. I am curently using Jim Allen's TURBO 030 on my Mega ST with Calamus and it's fast as anything. :-) It is definitely faster than my TT's. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 135 Sat Nov 23, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 00:25 EST Nathan, I'll take your TT if you don't need it any more! Even throw in a Mega STe and pay shipping.:-) Do you think there will be a chance of Calamus SL or Cranach supporting the Lexicor board in the future? Nothing like having 16mil colors at once. I know the resolution is shy in the horizontal area but that would allow Calamus and such to be run on a standard color monitor. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 136 Sat Nov 23, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:13 EST I'm sure that we'll support the board, we'll eventually support everyone's board. Once they are in production, I'll contact Lee if he does not contact me first :-) and get my hands on one for a few days to insure we are compatible. Frankly, I expect DynaCADD to work first time. :-) I may have to send a board to Germany to insure compatibility with Cranach Studio and SL, which only makes sense since all German board manufacturers send their board to DMC prior to its release, for obvious reasons. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 137 Sat Nov 23, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 19:09 EST Thanks for the info Nathan! I'm sure Lee will take care of you if not I'll loan you my board.:-) I know DynaCADD has the VDI switch so it should handle it right off! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 138 Sat Nov 23, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 20:29 EST I'm enjoying this SL.. VERY MUCH! Too bad I can't print oh well, no big deal. (and before you wonder why, it's not that the demo won't print but my printer is dying :-<.) Too many features but I have 75% of it familiarized.. by the way, will this version show color on a TT? I'd like to see how it handles the gradient curves and other stuff. Also, I hope you consider allowing for improting of color files and in S and displaying them using dither patterns (not too compilcated.) This will allow small budget users to create a "color" copy and send it to the printers for final printing..? I also downloaded Cranach and my first opinion: YIKES! Too much data. But I have one suggestion-- allow importing of PCX files, they're used for greyscale images because of their relatively smaller size compared to TIFF. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 139 Sat Nov 23, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 22:45 EST I'll remember that Joey. :-) ASX...the version you have will show color on the TT. What I did not include with the demo version, for obvious reasons, is many of the external modules i.e.; Color Separation Module. It will fill your needs like a glove. :-) Hmmm, I'll check on PCX. I know I can export PCX already in SL. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 140 Tue Nov 26, 1991 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:07 EST A friend wants me to ask what options we will have in S/SL as far as scanning is concerned. He has an HP Scanjet, I have the Migraph. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 141 Tue Nov 26, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 10:21 EST Tomas...So far, I have scanner drivers for a few scanners done but not yet shipping. I imagine that we will have a driver for the Scanjet. The question is when will a complete electronic scanning, editing and manipulation package become available that is totally compatible with Calamus S/SL and capable of doing both greyscale and 24 bit color...and the answer is when TMS Cranach Studio is released in English. And I do not know that date yet. Sorry. In the meantime, and of the existing programs can save in file formats that Calamus imports. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 143 Wed Nov 27, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:48 EST I have two more points: * We NEED a REPLACE mode. I'm happy that we have XOR and TRANSPARENT. The white is replace attribute does not perform the same function. For example, I loaded in a grey scale from Outline and proceeded to place a text frame with gray text and black outlined "Calamus". The text mixed-in with the grayscale and came out to be a mess. Most of the time, people have to draw white shapes in the background to cover the area, or cut-n-paste. Now if we had the text as REPLACE mode, then everything would be fine. It would help working with color backgrounds and greyscales. * The files created by VM _SHOULD_ be set to hidden and system files. That way they will not be erroneously deleted. How can that happen..? Doesn't matter, someone will find a way to legitimately do it. 9-) On the topic of VM, I found that a fresh zeroed partition increases efficiency. If you want to use VM, assign a partition for whatever memory you might want and don't use it for anything else. Using a clean partition decreases file creation and access time plus, you don't have to worry about fragmentation. But if you use your data drive (or the largest partition) for VM, you stand to run into problems if there was a crash (requiring a reset.) You may lose valuable data. This will place a limit on your VM, but since the program warns you if it runs out, you can quickly save. I have found the VM manager to be very reliable and "clean". The error handler is very good and so far has recovered from all errors. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 144 Wed Nov 27, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:37 EST On VM, I have a seperate partition, and use the "clean up" after use mode, the the Mx files are left on the disk, but the contents are cleared. This seems to be the quickest way. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 145 Thu Nov 28, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 10:38 EST ASX...Make sure that the type you overwrite, is in OPAQUE mode. Then what happens is that it will replace the color that is behind it. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 146 Thu Nov 28, 1991 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 21:13 EST Jim, did you mean the virtual memory path is /VM or are all your folders in the root directory? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 147 Fri Nov 29, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 03:30 EST Lou, I set up one folder../VM...and all the files end up there. By just clearing files rather than deleting them, it's quicker to start and stop SL. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 148 Sat Nov 30, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 19:02 EST Jim, yep that would cut down the startup time, but as I also use that partition for Touch Up's VM and scrap files, I disable it. Yeah it doesn't affect anything as Cal VM takes only the room it needs.. just don't like trusting demos . Hmm.. OPAQUE mode text?? I'll check it out. When I loaded a document created in N (a grayscale and 50% tinted text) into SL, the text was transparent no matter what attribute I selected from the Color dialog. I tried pattern, background, RGB, K. But it still wrote tranparent text. And yes I had the frame as "white is opaque". That really does not work since white boxes (set using the RGB and K scales) are treated as transparent no matter what I do. Perhaps I'm missing something?? By the way, N handles it properly-- each character is opaque and prints on top of grayscales. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 149 Sun Dec 01, 1991 TPHOMMEL [brother Denn] at 06:06 EST Well, it's now the first of December. Looks like Santa won't be bringing me Calamus SL this year. Maybe the groundhog at the beginning of February. Or then again, maybe the Easter bunny. But, I may be wrong: it could still be Santa... in '92! Anyway, I've accepted a temporary posting in Stratford, Ontario, so, I won't be able to check out this area for a couple of months. Let's hope I don't miss too much! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 150 Sun Dec 01, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 20:49 EST Denn...touch base with Paul at Computer Country in Stratford and get him to keep in touch and make sure we have your change of address. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 151 Sun Dec 08, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 17:49 EST Does "Extended Memory...: 0K" mean TT-FastRAM? If so, then does SL use _both_ types of RAM (simultaneously) and in what manner? I suspect that since it is GEM compliant, it uses rasters, so there is no need to go to normal TT RAM if there is sufficient FastRAM on the TT.. right? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 152 Mon Dec 09, 1991 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:44 EST ASX, I don't know about SL, but all programs may be set (setting the fast load bit) to load program, or resourse files or both into TT FAST RAM. It's your choice (of course you have to have a TT with FAST RAM. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 153 Tue Dec 10, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:45 EST I understood that the choice of loading or using normal RAM is to do direct video stuff like scrolling and etc. Things that really are not sanctioned by AES. If mallocing is all that SL needs to get memory, then why use ST RAM at all? If it does, that is. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 154 Wed Dec 11, 1991 M.HOPWOOD [Mike] at 01:38 EST Nathan - Before you promise too much, the Lexicor video board outputs 512 x 512, and is designed to work with the SC1224... It may be VDI-compatible, but still less than, what's the minimum, 640 x 350? .:MikeST. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 155 Thu Dec 12, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 12:09 EST SL uses whatever it finds. At the various shows I was using 26 MByte of TT RAM. :-) Mike...good point. Hmmm, now I wonder. (sigh) I spoke to Lee and to Jay. I will be getting a board shortly and will instantly test it out to insure compatibility with DynaCADD, Calamus and Cranach Studio. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 156 Sat Dec 14, 1991 B.SCHANTZ1 [Brian S.] at 14:44 EST The Jan 92 issue of Publish, page 18, in the Newsbeat section, has a section entitled "Atari Gears Up for Publishing Action." This short item mentions the TT030, Calamus SL, tms Cranach Studio, Didot Professional, and Retouche Professional, and speaks relatively favorably, except for a lament over the lack of Postscript compatability. What struck me (besides the fact that Atari was mentioned at all) was the fact that a price ($795) was given for SL. Did I miss something? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 157 Sun Dec 15, 1991 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 15:04 EST Publish magazine is now Talking ATARI? Great! I think is time for me go new issue. The postscript compatability, Oh I am sure Postscript was not use so that the Software will have better output. This programs work better with out postScript if Publish Mag could see the difference. Ringo. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 158 Sun Dec 15, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 16:41 EST Ok, US $795.00 sounds about right. :-) The Publish article was an offshoot of Seybold and Comdex. I look forward to the day I can send in a complete Calamus SL for review. Now, if US $795.00 is the retail price of SL, including lots of modules, color output capability, auto-tracing, CG Fonts, PKS Write, Vector Line ART etc. (the same retail as Quark and Pagemaker coincidently) how much should the upgrade charge be to our valued Calamus customer base? Since the entire new modular concept of Calamus S/SL is "WYNIWYG" (What You NEED is What You Get) what would happen if we stripped out the Vector Line ART module, the Auto-trace module etc.., started with a bare bones upgrade of xxx dollars and then charged yyy dollars per module? I'm thinking out loud here. The bare bones Calamus SL includes PKS Write, 2 CG Font Families, a new 600 page manual along with maybe a hundred new features. I wonder how receptive the Calamus user base would be to an upgrade charge of $200.00 rather than $500.00. If the volume is there, I can justify it. (sigh) I WILL ANNOUNCE the NEW PRICE STRUCTURE next week!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 160 Sun Dec 15, 1991 N.B.GARDNER [BRUCE] at 17:32 EST Nathan, I was one of those people who don't own a TT right now and maybe never will, but then someday I might. I was planning on purchasing Calamus S, but if SL is only going to be $200 for the upgrade, I would jump at it, but I have a big question.... That is speed. The demo SL seems to be a lot slower than 1.9n. People have commented that it is slower because it is processing for color and that Calamus S would be much faster on a monochrome screen. If I purchased SL, would it be slower or could I turn off the color part and increase the speed? If I could do that, then I will order SL. <<<<<<<< Bruce Gardner >>>>>>>> ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 161 Sun Dec 15, 1991 SGUBER at 21:38 EST Nathan: Seriously, if the upgrade were $200, and you could deliever it within a month, I would buy it tonight. you will tr hrow in a little line art, several extra fonts, a couple lors ds aleaping for the price, won't you. Sol ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 162 Sun Dec 15, 1991 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 22:54 EST Nathan, Oh my GOD! Your thinking price is excellent. Your upgrade price for S is $69.95 and maybe $200.00 for SL? I thinks Santa has made it to ATARI users now. Ringo. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 163 Mon Dec 16, 1991 C.STANFORD at 01:11 EST $200 for the upgrade is a fantastic price! If you want to see slow check out QuarkXpress 3.1 on a Mac IIci (25mhz '030) that sucker is SLOW! Oh and you also get those neat coffee breaks when you print a file d8^) Carl ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 164 Mon Dec 16, 1991 REALM [Joey] at 01:51 EST Nathan, Cool!:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 165 Mon Dec 16, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 02:15 EST Nathan, Are you suggesting (thinking aloud) a $200 upgrade to the bare-bones version of SL? Versus a $500 upgrade to the full shebang? My first reading of your message left me with the idea that you were considering offering the upgrade to the complete SL package for $200. Count me in FOR SURE at that! I'd have to dig, but I'm sure I'd somehow come up with $200 for the upgrade to the bare-bones SL. Might depend on how much it'd end up costing me for the modules I decide I'd need. (Of course, I don't even know what they are right now.) -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 166 Mon Dec 16, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:48 EST I appreciate the input. So far it seems I may be on the right track here. :-) I will finalize later this week. Bruce, what Carl said is valid, however, one of the main reasons for the delay, besides the manual, was a complete internal re-write of the text formatting to enhance the speed. There has also been this small change to the manner in which the screen redraws in that it now only redraws the exact area affected, not the entire page. Both have had a dramatic impact on speed but I doubt SL will ever be as fast as 1.09N because of the 4 color consideration of every part. When I ship, the speed will be acceptable, in my opinion. Sol, don't push it. :-) Harry, complete SL minus a few modules which would be enclosed in a complete new package on the shelf ie; Vector Line Art. My thinking is to reduce the upgarde to SL as much as possible, within realistic limitations, which is a natural when we have a modular based system. PKS Write will stay with the base product but not everyone would want, need or use the Vector Line Art m,odule so it is a natural, I think, to break that out and offer it separately for maybe $99.95 etc.. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 167 Mon Dec 16, 1991 NEVIN-S at 12:15 EST Sounds good to me, Nathan. Go for it..! --Nevin ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 168 Mon Dec 16, 1991 MRAYMOND [OBIWAN] at 21:23 EST AT $200. it's a no-brainer.... At $300. it a pause and consider..... At $400, it a hmmmmm... And now you know my levels of comfort. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 169 Mon Dec 16, 1991 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 21:41 EST C.STANFORD: Naah.. the IIci is slow to begin with, give it something serious and it'll croak. The program is slow, but you must remember that the modular structure coupled with (SL's) ONLINE READY TO GO color makes it slow. But S, with it's only responsibility to greyscales it should be faster. Hmm.. is there going to be a text editor in S or do we have to buy PKSW? Most of the time text is imported and we only need it for headlines, frame footnotes, etc. so the 1.09N editor will be fine. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 170 Mon Dec 16, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:29 EST I'm waiting with money in hand! (Well .... at least I'm waiting. :) -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 171 Mon Dec 16, 1991 S.FEENEY at 23:11 EST I had better count myself in, I don't want to miss out on the first shipment :). I like this positive thinking, and I am anxiously waiting for THE DATE! ;). ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 172 Tue Dec 17, 1991 C.STANFORD at 00:37 EST I think Nathan has the right approach. If you have a modular program it just seems natural to offer the modules as a seperate package. It's good for the Customer, Dealer and ISD (as long as they've figured out an anti-pirate solution). ASX...Geez...I read the Quark manual once (the only time I use the Mac is to FIX it, bomb an App. and kill the system?) and became the resident guru ;-( To be honest I usually think, Calamus does it this way, how would a Mac do it approach...I also have great joy whenever the Mac user walks by to load several vector graphics and whip them around on the screen (ISAC 1024x768) he always ask's why isn't the Mac that fast d8^). Seriously, Calamus is one of the most powerful DTP tools available, just go check out the competition, truly power without the price (comparativley speaking) Carl ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 173 Tue Dec 17, 1991 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 01:34 EST ASX says: >Hmm.. is there going to be a text editor in S or do we have to buy >PKSW? Most of the time text is imported and we only need it for >headlines, frame footnotes, etc. so the 1.09N editor will be fine. Someone take that man aside and talk to him! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 174 Tue Dec 17, 1991 M.GATER [Mike Gater] at 02:35 EST Nathan, I like the way you think! The prices you have mentioned seem fair and reasonable. If you don't mind me asking you to go the extra mile, I think it would be in everybody's interest if you could start setting prices on the available modules so those of us who will need them can begin to budget - or fill out the loan papers... I see you already picked out a good price for Vector Line Art, now if you could put together some sort of chart (or better yet, a mail-out ORDER form!) with set prices for S/SL upgrades, and the Line Art, Curve & Line Auto- tracing, Dataformer, and Mount & Print modules... Have you decided how to handle the CG font orders so we don't end up with duplicates of fonts we already own? Perhaps SL could come with an order certificate(s) (with a sample printout) good for two CG fonts, so we could determine our own needs? Mike ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 175 Tue Dec 17, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 08:23 EST I have decided prices. I might even share that decision with you by tomorrow. PKS Write will be enclosed with Calamus S. The very nature of the S and SL concept seems to be changing on the fly and I'm not sure at this point what S will or will not be able to do. ASX, the goal is to have the program working as fast as possible, even though it is generating 4 color. NOTHING is impossible. :-) The world is our oyster and all that. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 181 Fri Dec 20, 1991 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 15:20 EST Nathan, is LINEART module the upgrade to OUTLINE ART? When I order the SL upgrade I am thinking of getting the Line art module. Ringo. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 182 Fri Dec 20, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 15:42 EST Thanks anyway Dean. :-) Ringo...NO. The Vector Line Art module is not an upgrade to Outline Art. It contains many new features and allows you the ability to perform vector graphic editing functions from within Calamus itself. The upgrade to Outline Art is called....Outline Art 2 and is not yet close enough to talk about. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 183 Fri Dec 20, 1991 D.EIFERT [Darrell] at 18:34 EST Nathan -- Although I am eagerly awaiting S/SL along with all the others, I am still perturbed by the idea of an $800 DTP package that recognizes neither Adobe Type 1 nor Compugraphic IntelliFont hinted fonts. The Dataformer module sounds like a step in the right direction, but there are many of us out here with Deskjets or HP IIP's or other standard lasers that produce beautiful 300 DPI output from products such as PageStream and FSM GDOS, which offer hinting. There are many professional documents -- reports, manuals, newsletters, and the like -- which do not require a 1200 DPI Lino, but *do* need to look sharp. Perhaps it would help if I understood why Ditek, although offering standard Compugraphic fonts, will not allow Calamus to recognize the hinted versions. Perhaps ISD could hire a North American programmer to write a patch that would allow this? All I really need is CS Times and CS Triumvirate for a decent 10-12 pt. body text. The other Calamus fonts seem to be fine for anything above 15 pts. Darrell @ Silver Hawk Publication Services ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 184 Fri Dec 20, 1991 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 20:00 EST Nathan, On tuesday night you mentioned that you had decided on prices and would be sharing the same with us eager beavers shortly (like the next day, MAYBE). Have I missed this? Perhaps not, noticing how quiet this entire catagory has become. Kind of spooky, like walking into a forest and not hearing any noise whatsoever. Everyone holding their breath, perhaps? ;-) Doug Walter ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 186 Fri Dec 20, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 20:25 EST Lots of little issues involved, driving me crazy. (sigh) I had hoped to conclude every little detail two days ago but was unable to do so. Please accept my apologies. AAARGGHHH!! A few years ago when we licensed the Compugraphic font outlines, we decided that the intellifonts were not rthe way to go for us. Even though they did contain hinting info, they only scaled to 200 points, at that time. In order for us to use intellifonts now, it means re-doing an entire library, something I hesitate to do, based on the sales to date and the proliferation of all those 3rd party font convertor programs etc.. In other words, I might have a hard time justifying the additional expense at this point in time. Which doesn't mean I won't do it anyway, but it is not my preferred method of adding hinting. More on that at a later date. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 188 Sun Jan 05, 1992 D.EIFERT [Darrell] at 00:11 EST Nathan, Just finished talking with a friend of mine who is a sign painter/cutter, and who is interested in putting together an Atari/Calamus/Outline Art front end to his GRAFION II cutter. My main question is whether or not SL will output .DXF files through the Dataformer module -- although he can do limited text and graphics work with his current 386 MS-DOS front end, he would *love* to do some serious design with SL. He has also requested a packet of information on the entire ISD line (incuding DynaCADD). His address is: Peter Achorn P.O. Box 276 Tennants Harbor, Maine 04860 Thanx! Darrell @ Silver Hawk Publication Services ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 189 Sun Jan 05, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 11:40 EST Yes, Dataformer does DXF and HPGL. :-) Type ART drives sign cutters also by the way. I will send info to him, thanks. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 191 Sun Jan 05, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 16:20 EST Darrell, DynaCADD wouldn't be bad investment for a sign cutter. It has a lot of tools not available anywhere else. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 192 Mon Jan 06, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:13 EST I have an idea that you will actually receive your notification of an upgrade to SL by the end of next week, finally! Joey is right. DynaCADD is being used by Sign Cutters around the world. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 193 Mon Jan 06, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:56 EST Does this mean....? Nah, can't be. Well, maybe this time... Oh, he wrote the end of NEXT week, not THIS week... Nah, he'll probably be touring the far east with Bush by then... What if Canadian postal and telephone goes on strike and they're all picketing in Florida by then? Another week? What if DMC decides this was all a mistake; that they really wanted to try to update Publisher ST for the North American market instead? By NEXT week Bush could decide to bolster his popularity by declaring war on Canada! Nah... Probably just waiting for the module that makes SL Lynx-compatible... Just think, 8 Lynxes and a Linotronic all wired together... Next week, next week... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 194 Mon Jan 06, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 21:03 EST I would stand here and say that "This is the year of ISD" but it has been said by others before me and I wouldn't want to steal their line. :-) Mike, the Newsletter leaving for you next week is an exciting one, I promise you. The Newsletter that will follow it by maybe ONE month will also be very exciting, at least to anyone into DTP on the Atari platform, at any level. We are not first and I imagine we will not be last, but I PROMISE YOU that Calamus SL will set a standard towards which other strive! Nathan Potechin President of ISD January 6, 1992 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 197 Wed Jan 15, 1992 A.HEYDUK1 [JEDRUS] at 00:05 EST Well, I don't want to rub anything in, but... Here are a couple of quotes from AtariUser's review of last year: January 1991 "Calamus S and SL are in beta testing in Germany, and are anticipated for an early March release". June 1991 "ISD's Nathan Potechin says Calamus S (...) will be available as an upgrade in July". December 1991 "Calamus S is scheduled to be released by ISD on December 15". I do understand, Nathan, that it is not your fault, etc. Yet, in my view it is much better to refrain from making any announcements about the availability of a product until such time that the product is definitely ready. That way we could all avoid many disappointments. As it is, I have just "defected" to PageStream, because I could no longer afford waiting for some of the features promised in Calamus SL. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 199 Wed Jan 15, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 12:38 EST Jedrus...Please accept my sincere apologies. I said a few things that I should not have said, when I said them. I relied on information provided to me which has proven to be inaccurate. Calamus SL was released in Germany, in German, in August 1991. I did not choose to simply translate and release the program. I did not choose to simply translate and release the manual. Instead, I chose to translate and re-write both, at the same time knowing that the quality of the program itself could only improve with time. I refused to release a product that was not up to my standards of readiness. So, in fact, I am to blame and I accept full and complete responsibility for my decisions. I can only hope that Shaun is correct and that you decide to upgrade your version of Calamus regardless. It will certainly be worth it. And that has nothing to do with any other DTP product. I know many people that own and use both. In most cases they owned Publishing Partner first actually :-) but that did not stop them from purchasing Calamus as any well-written software program has its individual strengths and/or weaknesses, perceived or otherwise. By the way, I officially handed 608 pages of film to my Printer this very morning. He has promised to call me tomorrow with an accurate delivery date for the completed and bound manual. As has been my policy, I will share his date with you as the day after I receive back the manuals, my local branch of Canada Post will be unindated with large 2 ring binder mailouts. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 210 Thu Jan 16, 1992 A.HEYDUK1 [JEDRUS] at 20:58 EST Nathan, Apology accepted, though none is necessary. I happen to think that you provide you customers with outstanding support which can be used as a model for everybody else. I quoted AtariUser, because it seems to me that premature annoucements of upcoming products are incompatible with the kind of first-rate service we have always enjoyed at the hands of ISD. As for my decision to switch to PageStream, it's just a matter of mundane, everyday necessity (deadlines, angry customers, etc.), and I hope no one has construed my previous post to be anything else. I still sincerely hope both Calamus SL and ISD do wonderfully well. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 228 Tue Jan 21, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 13:50 EST I have just finished converting a Calamus document file over to ASCII text so that I could upload it to the library. Based on the telephone calls, our customer mailout is definitely starting to reach some people. However, we only finshed the last of the actual mailout today. So, for those of you interested in reading about things NOW, I have uploaded the text into the ISD library #30, file #22360. I suspect it will be released by tonight once its turn comes around and I am prepared to answer any questions that you may have. Nathan Potechin January 21, 1992 ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 233 Wed Jan 22, 1992 S.FEENEY at 05:50 EST Nathan, Maybe you should let the sysops over in the Pet Net BB know the techniques used to communicate effectively with the cat :). What is meant when stated that PKS and Raster Generator modules will be offered for a limited time? You may have to extend that limited offer for some :-). ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 234 Wed Jan 22, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:46 EST WESTERN UNION NATHAN ALL IS FORGIVEN MOTHER PS WRITE WHEN YOU FIND WORK Beautiful! you'll find my upgrade order in GEnie mail. In re-reading some old ST X-Press issues, I came across their initial review of Calamus. They questioned whether a Canadian company could possibly provide the support service that such a powerful program would demand. Bill Rebhock was a Atari user in, I think, Chicago; Bob Brodie was a UG officer in a local west coast group, Atari had another new US sales manager and and a number of anticipated "imminent" products. The "name" US software houses had begun to pull back from their initial foray into the ST market. "Too small a market and they won't buy our 'no brain' IBM ports." Well, ST X-Press is long gone. Canadian and German companies are largely (and well) supporting the American ST user. Small American companies now involved in importing and modifying European sofware and hardware can look to ISD as an example of how to make a decent profit in this market through aggressive marketing and superb support. Thanks, Nathan! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 235 Wed Jan 22, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:21 EST PROFIT??!! (sigh) I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. Something had been bothering me for quite some time now. It was an itch but I couldn't figure out from where it came. You mean to tell me that I'm supposed to make a profit? :- ) You are most welcome and I thank you for the kind words Mike. STOP ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 239 Thu Jan 23, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:58 EST Nathan, The press release talks about a color separation module. Is there any news on the availability of a color driver for the DJ500C? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 241 Thu Jan 23, 1992 S.WILLHITE2 at 21:03 EST Okay, granted I just jumped in here ... after the much awaited announced release of Calamus SL ... but for us in the low-rent district, what about "S"? And And just for the record, I've been working in DTPing for the past year ... on Macs and using highly totted "fourth wave" pre-production systems on IBM's .... NONE come close to Calamus! It's a GREAT program. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 242 Fri Jan 24, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 10:01 EST S.WILLHITE2...for the time being (sigh) I don't know about "S". The programmers seemed to have gotten ahead of themselves. They apparently added so many new features to SL that they are having a hard time figuring out how to disable things to get back to an "S" version. I made a decision to go with SL at the lowest possible price so that everyone could take advantage of the offer and NOT wait for "S". That is my advice to everyone. The second I have something solid to share with you re: "S" I will do so but please consider upgrading to SL instead. You will not be disappointed. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 243 Fri Jan 24, 1992 E.STUCKEY at 18:18 EST Nathan I just sent in my order for Calamus Sl. Reading the literature about the Color Separation module raised a question. Will this module help with TIFF (grey scale images). Maybe you could explain what this module does. Looking foward to SL. Thanks.....Ed ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 244 Fri Jan 24, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 19:47 EST Nathan, you already know I'm slow sometimes. I just want to make sure of one thing. Will SL run in monochrome? Okay, two things. What module converts a layout to a vector graphic.? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 246 Fri Jan 24, 1992 D.KERR1 [Drew] at 20:47 EST Nathan: You've given very clear descriptions of the 3 modules that are ready. But I'd love to know about the other ones that you mentioned that will be available in the next month or so. Do they handle GIF files? Do they print to Postscript files? Thanks, Drew ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 247 Fri Jan 24, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 23:32 EST Ed...The Color Separation Module deals with the generation or automatic generation of 4 color seps for output, including manual capabilites allowing you to customize whatever. You do NOT require this module in order to import TIFF as TIFF import is included with the base Calamus SL. Calamus SL will 100% DEFINITELY operate in SL. In fact, my personal workstation remains a Mega ST4 along with a Moniterm 24" monochrome monitor. Of course I am using one of Jim Allen's TURBO 030 Accelerator boards running at 40 Mhz which only means that my ST is currently running faster than yours Ken. :-) To convert a "raster" to a vector, use Speed-Line, our real clean, real fast Auto-tracer. If you wish to fool around with your vector creation, fine tune it or whatever, then the Vector Line Art Module is the way as you never have to leave Calamus or the page on which you are working. For those of you that haven't met him, Steve Gold is the earnest Atari Rep. currently living in Florida, that covers the deep south for Atari. He managed to slip in through the door before we noticed he was in town and so we had no choice but to show him a thing or two lying around the office. :-) Drew...GIF is another one of those file formats that have already been included in Calamus SL. PostScript is another issue, one of the burning ones. PostScript output will be available in the Dataformer Module, converting a frame or a page to PS or EPS. Dataformer also will handle DXF, HPGL and a few other more esoteric file formats. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 248 Fri Jan 24, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 23:35 EST S.WILLHITE2 -- Nathan's right (naturally:). He has priced the upgrade to SL VERY low! I think that part of his rationale was that he wanted to provide something for those of us who were pretty sure we "only" wanted the S version. With SL priced at $795, it might not be unreasonable to see an S version priced at $495 (just guessing). That'd still leave a $200 difference in the list prices of 1.09N and the S version. So, $200 for the SL version might an even better deal that we'd have hoped for (especially since it includes the additional modules and fonts). Now that I've said all that, I have to decide whether to upgrade now or go on through with refinancing my home mortgage. That $200 would just about pay for the appraisal! ;-) NATHAN -- Ken's question ("will SL run in mono?") shook me awake! I'd been assuming that ot WILL run in mono. In fact, I'd been assuming that I could even do the color separations while usign my mono monitor. (But I realize I wouldn't be able to SEE the colors.) Here's an additional question: Will it run on a plain old SC1224 on an ST (not "e", not Mega, not TT)? -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 249 Fri Jan 24, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 23:40 EST Just sent off my check today for SL, the Auto-Tracer & the Vector Graphic Editor. GO U.S. SNAIL, GO! I have a few of questions. 1. Any idea about the upgrade paths for OL Art & the Font Editor? Sounds like the VGE Module will do more than OL Art already! Is there something BIGGER on the horizon? 2. What WON'T we be able to do without the Color Separation Module? Is it mainly for 4-color separations? 3. Any information at this time on the three "soon to be available" Modules? Need to know how many pennies to save! ;^) 4. Somebody want to donate a TT030 or an accelerated Mega to a worthy cause? I'll need lots of RAM & a 19" monitor please for all of these killer modules. Thank you for your exceedingly great kindness in advance! =-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Way to go Nathan! When you deliver, you REALLY deliver! I can't wait to start seeing the messages of those who receive SL. Hope I'll be one of them real soon now! Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 251 Sat Jan 25, 1992 S.WINICK at 06:34 EST Nathan, How 'bout some additional information on the Dataformer module. Any guesstimate on release date (hopefully a little better guesstimate than your original SL target :-). You caught my attention with the "more esoteric file formats" comment, especially the capablility to import CADD drawing formats. Hmmmm...... I can imagine some real 'big' Calamus files in my future. :-] Currently, I'm including CADD drawings in documents by merely printing them out on separate pages on the laser printer. Being able to actually integrate them right onto the (Calamus) printed page with full cutting and pasting capability will be 'real' nice! Sheldon Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 252 Sat Jan 25, 1992 E.STUCKEY at 08:14 EST Nathan Thanks. On page 231 of the Guide to Calamus Desktop Publishing there is described a module for improving graphic image quality. Is there a module for this process or is it already included in SL. Thanks.......Ed ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 253 Sat Jan 25, 1992 D.KERR1 [Drew] at 08:43 EST HI NATHAN: After perusing the 240 or so messages before mine, I still don't know all the graphic files Calamus SL will be able to import. Could you please list all the types (liike IMG, Degas, Degas Elite, Neochrome, etc.) as well as any that the separate modules will handle. I'm disappointed "S" is so up in the air because I have monochrome monitors in my office and $200 seems like quite a leap for color functions as opposed to $69 for the same thing with strictly mono capabilties. Maybe I'm a little confused. Other than color functions, is "S" supposed to be exactly like "SL" (notably the module system)? Thanks, Drew ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 254 Sat Jan 25, 1992 SGUBER at 12:08 EST Nathan: In order to determine how much money to send you, I pose the following questions: 1; What will the vector module do that Outline will not and why will you not give use Outline owners a break on the upgrade price? 2: How do we determine what other fonts rather than Times and Swizz ss can be included? Hint, Hint Will Hintinh be a part of SL and how do we fontiers (pardon my French) convert our fonts properly. 3: Which one of my non-existant color laser printers will SL support, and how long does it take to send all of the information to the printer? 4: In your 600+ pages of documents, is there any inormation on file format, header types, anything to allow SL to be used an an engine to get EXCEL type capabilties out of VIP or LDWpower progrmas. Sol PS: I would have put all this in E-Mail, but I think that others are curious too. If you answer the questions properly, I will sned you more money, I really want SL!!!!!!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 256 Sat Jan 25, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:13 EST Harry...Calamus SL will display shades of grey to indicate the various ciolors on your monochrome monitor. I am sorry that the SC1224 simply does not have the minimum resolution so cannot be used with Calamus SL. Jeff...Outline Art will be upgraded to Outline Art 2.0. The Font Editor will be replaced by Type Art. No date or price has yet been announced. Type Art is solid already but as usual the manual translation is causing a delay. You will NOT be able to output color or, you MUST have the Color Separation Module in order to generate and output 4 color separation. I do not plan on releasing a new module for about 60 days. The one that is getting all my attention is Dataformer but quite a few others are in development....dozens of others in fact. :-) And please accept my most humble apologies as I was unable to obtain free product or you know I'd give you whatever you needed Jeff. :-) John KT....I did notice your order in email, thank you. I will put it directly to the bottom of the pile. :-) Seriously John, I will get it in on Monday. Would you believe I took the weekend off, except for GEnie of course. :-) Sheldon...See above re: Dataformer. DXF is in and working in it. We've already tested it! :-) Ed...I just happened to have a copy of the Guide handy at home so I immediately looked up your reference. And the good news is YES, the Histogram is part of the base Calamus SL. Drew...I'm at home without the latest Calamus SL with me. Lets see what I can remember from memory. Included with Calamus SL: AIM, CRG, DEGAS, ESM (CRANACH STUDIO), GEM IMG, GIF, IFF, MOC, NEO16, NEO256, NEOCHROME, STAD, TARGA, TIFF and probably a few more odds and ends. All the above are in Calamus SL and working NOW!! I'd prefer to not discuss the un-released drivers but will keep everyone abreast of things as they happen. This entire Calamus S issue is making me crazy Drew. MY understanding of S was more along the lines of a modular version of 1.09N with lots of new features plus the ability to add whatever modules etc.. but NO color. Now I am learning that the Programmers apparently went to far past the point of removing the color as elegantly as I'd envisioned. In fact, at this point in time, I'm really not sure when there would be such a version. So, I went ahead and priced the upgrade for SL based on NOT having a Calamus S version any time soon. Calamus SL contains complete color information, including for text etc.. but it can be turned off. Since I personally use a Moniterm monitor, I am already getting used to shades of grey in place of solids, indicating the various colors. Sol...I will be pleased to give Outline Art owners a break on Outline Art 2.0 as has always been my policy. The Vector Graphic Line Art Editor does some things that can be done outside of Calamus in Outline Art. However, it was designed to compliment Ouitline Art, not replace it. It was designed to allow you to fine tune your documents in Calamus SL. It was designed with the old 1 + 1 = 3 concept in mind and it has achieved that goal. AGFA Compugraphic Times and Triumvirate are included with Calamus SL, unless you have already purchased those fonts from us. If you alreasdy own those fonts then I will be happy to offer you equal value on any of the other AGFA Compugraphic fonts currently available. The list was mailed to you on the back of the Outline Art brochure. I cannot accurately answer you query re: hinting yet. Calamus SL includes few drivers for 150 dpi thermal tranfer printers, 300 dpi thermal transfer and dye sublimation printers along with HP Paint Jet and a few others. More drivers will follow with the DJ500C at the top of my list. Timing depends on the type of color printer as well as the dpi but usually ranges from 2-3 minutes a page for 4 color separation. No Sol, we have not included information on file formats in the manual. (sigh) File format as well as information on how to properly write a module for Calamus SL will be made available to qualified developers in the near future. And finally Sol, I have no idea if I answered your questions "properly" but I do know that I also prefer any general Calamus related questions to always appear in the BB because I simply do not have time to keep repeating myself in email. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 258 Sat Jan 25, 1992 D.CHARTER at 21:19 EST I just tried the SL demo program (I have had it for testing, but it has been quite a while). It seems pretty slow compared to 1.09. It there a difference between the real SL and 1.09? I am using an older 520ST, 4 Megs, and T-16. Thanks Duane ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 259 Sun Jan 26, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 02:12 EST Nathan, thanx for the info. Thought it was worth a try on the free hardware. :^) I am one that's slightly disappointed about the elusiveness of the S version, but we're getting an INCREDIBLE DEAL on the price to upgrade to SL! It's kinda hard to complain about getting all of this power for such a low price. I was real close to Nathan, thanx for the info. Thought it was worth a try on the free hardware. :^) I am one that's slightly disappointed about the elusiveness of the S version, but we're getting an INCREDIBLE DEAL on the price to upgrade to SL! It's kinda hard to complain about getting all of this power for such a low price. I was real close to purchasing Avant Vector for some minor auto-tracing -- glad I held off. I'm sure the Trace module will be quite sufficient for my needs. I wrote a check for $350 and got not JUST an auto-trace program, but a top of the line layout program too! I was also in need of a new word processor. It's there too! WOW! They have a few PaintJets laying around at work! What a waste; they're hooked up to IBMs to output some really cheesy charts & graphs. Looks like it's time for Frito to meet the ATARI again! It's really fun to see the looks on their faces! Keep up the SPEEDY work on the modules. Especially the Dataformer! A QUESTION (or two): How many faces are in the Times & Triumvirate Families? Will the Calamus modules run as stand-alone programs? (For those times when you just want to type in a few lines of text in PKS, for example.) Sorry, just can't wait to get the real thing! Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 260 Sun Jan 26, 1992 SGUBER at 09:39 EST Nathan: I played around with the SL demo some more to become more secure with the program. Thre is a strong incompatii bility with FMSGDOS. With FMSGDOS loaded, the prgogram will not run, but gives an error message. Any ideas besides the obvious one. Sol ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 262 Sun Jan 26, 1992 D.KERR1 [Drew] at 16:29 EST Nathan: Thank you for your honesty and quick, informative reponse. SL doesn't work with Atari's old color monitor... so how about the new one? What about Atari's monochrome monitor? Will there be any possibility of SL handling EPS graphics? Pardon my slight ignorance in the area of DTP, in case this means printing to Postscript. Drew ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 264 Sun Jan 26, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 18:16 EST Drew, I think Nathan meant the ST's current color resolutions won't support Calamus SL. Which in turn means the monitor wasn't designed to handle it either. I think SL requires 640x400 or higher to function properly. I tried the demo on the TT and it works fine in TT Medium, ST High and TT High. So if you have a Monochrome Monitor for your ST it should work great. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 265 Sun Jan 26, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 18:19 EST Duane...there has been major changes in Calamus SL in the past months since I uploaded the demo version, specifically concentrating on speed. While SL does not run as fast as 1.09N it now runs close enough considering all the additional information it can now generate. Jeff...Instant replay on those first paragraphs. :-) Good news on the Paint Jets. Let me know how they output as I've personally never used one. CG Times contains the standard 4 faces, regular, bold, regular italic and bold italic. CG Triumvirate has 11 faces starting at light to heavy etc.. I am not releasing PKS Write as a stand alone program at this time. Sol...At this time I can only recommend the obvious. In fact, I strongly recommend the obvious. DISABLE GDOS OR FSMGDOS when Calamus. Simply put, the memory it uses can be put to better use and it has not use in Calamus. Joe...send me your complete address and serial number in EMail \ and I'll verify your registration. Drew...I also have an Atari SM124 which has always worked with Calamus as it does 640 x 400. I believe the new Atari color monitor has the same resolution as the old one although I admit I haven't seen one. Someonefill us in please. The Dataformer module wikll export EPS graphics. Import of EPS graphics is still in the air. The issue is whether a complete PostScript Interpreter would be made available in order to import and view EPS which is a little bit of work. :-) Dean...YES, it will run on a standard Mega ST4. It will run FASTER using one of Jim's cards though :-). Wish I was in Hawaii with my wife right now, he adds, glancing out the window at more miserable weather. Send me a postcard. :- ) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 266 Sun Jan 26, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:16 EST I noticed I made a few typing mistakes in my last post. Sorry. Joey is right on those resolutions by the way. Thanks for posting Joey. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 271 Mon Jan 27, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 00:09 EST Nathan, that's some great news on the font families! I didn't expect THAT many. I wish that my wife would leave our MasterCard alone -- I could have charged the upgrade! I'll have to be patient & wait for US Snail. Poor Mailman is gonna' be getting some dirty looks every time he leaves this address without bring SL! :^) Thanks Nathan, Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 272 Mon Jan 27, 1992 D.VINICOR [Don] at 02:18 EST Nathan...a couple of topics not yet addressed, I think. Does SL come with the driver(s) for the monochrome HP DeskJet? You mentioned that the color support wasn't available, but what about the old faithfuls? I need TAB fonts for table printing. Can the CG fonts supplied be re-kerned using the current Calamus Font Editor or would I be stuck with proportional fonts? Thanks for the help. -- Don ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 273 Mon Jan 27, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 11:19 EST Ringo...Please bring me up to date in EMail. I'd prefer to resolve this issue and VAR in private if you don't mind. :-) My wife used the Mastercard once too Jeff. I can relate. :-) (ducking) Don...Yes. SL comes with the standard printer drivers. In fact, :-), ALL Calamus 1.09N printer drivers work in SL. Next. :-) I love having the right answers. You're going to love this one. I've been vague mostly on many of the new features that have been added to SL. One of those new features is the ability to make proportional fonts non-proportional and vice-versa. How's that sound Don? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 275 Mon Jan 27, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 19:41 EST Nathan, I personally feel that being able to convert an EPS or a PS document to Calamus SL, would go along way to making SL the ULTIMATE DTP PROGRAM instead of a GREAT DTP PROGRAM. Steve ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 278 Mon Jan 27, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 21:34 EST Steve...I can understand a desire to export to PS or EPS. I can even understand a desire to import an EPS graphic I suppose. Lets see what develops. :-) Harry, I ducked because my wife definitely contributes her equal share in all things. In fact, I try my best just to keep up with her. :-) Sol...thank you. I was having a bad night or something and took your post wrong. Please accept my apologies. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 280 Mon Jan 27, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 22:49 EST To those of you who have been waiting for Calamus S like I was... Nathan's held the SL upgrade price to $200. Now that's more than the $70 or so we anticipated for S, but it's quite a bargain for what is offered. The old Calamus "Guide" lists the Triumvirate font family that Nathan's including for $199.95 and the Times family for $99.95 - more than the price of the program upgrade right there. Also, SL's available NOW and S is/was(?) projected to be at least several months down the road from SL's release. For me, going with SL makes better sense than waiting for a less capable version. Particularly now that HP has produced their color DeskJet... and "my buddy" Steve's got one..., I KNOW that color capability will become affordable and I KNOW I'm gonna want to be able to produce color output. (color DJ driver's a priority, Nathan!). To me, upgrading to SL NOW is the way to go. (So when are you shipping, Nathan???) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 282 Mon Jan 27, 1992 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:29 EST Nathan, -When- the Dataformer module comes out, will it transform a CDK to an EPS graphic file? I am specifically wondering whether one could run the resulting EPS out to the SLMx0x through UltraScript. That would be a relatively inexpensive way to get some PostScript quality out of the ol' Eight-0-saurus. Just curious, Doug ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 283 Mon Jan 27, 1992 C.F.JOHNSON [CodeHead] at 23:29 EST Steve, I hope Nathan doesn't mind if I butt in and say that there already is a program that can convert EPS to Calamus Vector Graphics -- Avant Vector EPS. Avant Vector lets you freely interchange graphics between Pagestream and Calamus, and among different computer platforms. We've been shipping the latest version, which imports and exports in both CVG, EPS, and GEM3 formats, for about two weeks now. Avant Vector does an incredible job of importing, displaying, and editing EPS graphics created with programs like Illustrator and Corel Draw -- which, as Nathan said, basically requires it to be a Postscript interpreter (no small feat). - Charles ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 284 Mon Jan 27, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 23:36 EST Got my mailing from ISD today -- five days after I sent for the upgrade! Isn't GEnie GREAT! I can't imagine being a Calamus user without all of this INCREDIBLE first-hand support. Anyway, the snapshots of the vector & auto trace modules really whet the appetite! Looks like A LOT of flexibility for auto tracing -- to me it looks better than A*a*t V*c*o*! I can't wait to start converting some of those IMG files! I looked at an old mailing with font listings and am still AMAZED & overwhelmed that we're getting 15 typefaces! This is one of those deals that's really easy to explain to the wife! ;^) "See, honey, I'm getting a top-of-the-line DTP program, PLUS a vector editor, PLUS an auto trace program, PLUS a word processor, PLUS some great typefaces! And honey, I REALLY needed all of those ANYWAY. So I'm REALLY saving us lot's of money by sending our $350 to ISD. Isn't that great honey?" :^) Thanks for making marriage easier Nathan! ;^) Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 285 Mon Jan 27, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:43 EST Wait a minute! 15 type-faces? Is that with the basic SL or is that with some extra module thing? Are these _good_ type-faces, the kind discerning people would use, or are these like the ones that came with 1.09N, look great to me but look mediocre to the trained eye? No offense meant to 1.09N. Love it, love the fonts, but then people here told me they'd never use them for professional purposes -- right after I'd just published four separate manuals and umteen ads with them. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 287 Tue Jan 28, 1992 R.NOAK at 00:54 EST Dorothy, The reason that those typefaces looked "mediocre to the trained eye", is that the typefaces included with 1.09N are not "hinted". "Hinted" fonts contain instructions that make them look better when printed to a low rez (9 pin, 24 pin, DeskJet, 300 DPI laser) printer. Hopefully, the Calamus SL fonts will be hinted. Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 288 Tue Jan 28, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:05 EST Thanks, Randy. Nathan, are the 15 fonts hinted? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 289 Tue Jan 28, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 01:42 EST Nathan, SL's not actually shipping yet is it? Just wondering when I should check the mail.:-) ASX, Monster in the Library will give you a 640x400 screen in Low Res. Most of SL works on it. Some of the Dialogue boxes get screwed up but you can load pictures in color. Why would Vector Fonts need hinting? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 290 Tue Jan 28, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 05:08 EST Dorothy & Randy, The typefaces that are packaged with the BASIC SL upgrade are of the Dorothy & Randy, The typefaces that are packaged with the BASIC SL upgrade are of the highest quality. They are NOT hinted, though. It's definitely true that hinting would help tremendously for 300 dpi printing, but this is NOT the problem with the Times & Swiss families supplied with 1.09N. They had bad kerning & some weird x-heights, etc. In other words, they were not designed that well. You could print them out at 2540 on a Linotronic & they would still look funky! Rest assured that the Times & Triumvirate from Compugraphic are VERY GOOD. Hinting would help, but they will look excellent even at 300 dpi. Take a look at the ISD mailing to see how good 300 dpi can look with good design & quality fonts. This was done with Compugraphic typefaces, wasn't it Nathan? In short, toss the original 1.09N Times & Swiss in the can! :^) Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 291 Tue Jan 28, 1992 D.SENSUI at 07:20 EST geeeeeee..... With all the features listed in the textfile uploaded in the library here, I'd just as soon forget about the 'S' upgrade and go whole hog for SL. It's more than worth it with the increased flexibility and the potential for moving to a more powerful platform someday. Nathan: You should be receiving my E-mail order in a few minutes. I'm definitely sold. Thanks for all the hard work! Dean. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 292 Tue Jan 28, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:51 EST I must have logged off early last night, 13 new messages since 9:30 pm. :-) This is almost as exciting as category 18. :-) Thanks Mike. The manual is due in-house this Thursday. Then the product will be shipped, one at a time. :-) Doug...YES, the Dataformer Module can transform a CDK to PS or EPS so you can then output to a PostScript device. This does include using Ultrascript on the SLM804 or 605. Charles...thanks for dropping in. Jeff...always glad to help out. :-) Dorothy...these are the two most popular AGFA Compugraphic typefaces that I licensed from them. These are original typefaces and are quite precise. They do NOT contain hinting information as Randy is quick to point out but they are not bad at all at 300 dpi. I did use the CG Triumvirate font in my mailout which you should receive next week now that you registered your copy of Calamus Dorothy. :-) By the way, original typefaces did not contain hinting information because they were expected to be output at hi resolutions. And since it has come up once again, allow me to mention that 'hinting' remains number 2 on my list of things I want to see in Calamus SL, right after PostScript.:-) It is in development Randy, rest assured. Thanks again Jeff. I'm glad you made that decision Dean. I am hoping that others share the conclusion you reached. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 293 Tue Jan 28, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 10:47 EST Thanks, Nathan, but I remain a bit confused: Does Calamus SL support hinted fonts if I were to purchase some? Would hinted fonts look _markedly_ better on my DJ, or would they be essentially indistinguish- able from non-hinted at that low a resolution? Looking forward to that mailing! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 295 Tue Jan 28, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:39 EST Your 'Customer Update' arrived here today. Couple of questions that may be of general interest: What is a 'Histogram'? Will the SL manual show *exactly* how to set up macros? Does SL come with a default macro setup? (whew! I just looked in the Calamus manual for 'Macros' and got the text macro part, then had to hunt for the section describing how to place key bindings in the HELP file! please say SL will have at least a sample command-key binding setup) Will I need the Color Separation module to print to a Color DeskJet or it just for printing in black separate pages for each color in order to have those separations for a commercial printer? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 296 Tue Jan 28, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 20:06 EST Mike, allow me to answer (since I wrote the chapter on the Macro Recorder). If you own Interlink, you will immediately see the resemblance. If not, listen closely.... 1. Click on the Macro Recorder. 2. Use the menus, key bindings or top row icons to step thorugh a series of functions. 3. Click Macro Recorder again and you are asked to supply the desired key binding (1440 combinations using ALT, LShift, RShift or Control). 4. Save the key binding. For a working example of one that I use, download the file SL_CHAT.ARC which was the captured from an RTC several months ago. It shows you how to create a macro to open a new document, draw and position a text frame, and place PIPE FROM and PIPE TO markers. The file number is # 20964 and its only 15kb (90 second download). The file is full of other information about SL features. The Macro Recorder is one of the most enjoyable and easy to use features in SL....another reason not to wait for Calamus S. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 297 Tue Jan 28, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 20:44 EST This version of SL will NOT contain hinted fonts Dorothy. The difference can be noticeable depending on the point size that you use and the quality of the font. The quality of the CG fonts are unquestioned so as long as you remain above 10 points or so, you should be just fine. Yes Dorothy, I checked. You were already registered. :-) Now check the mailout and you decide if the quality is sufficient for your needs. I used CG fonts @ 300 dpi at 12 or 14 point size. A Histogram has a wide range of features, allowing you to control various settings in any raster graphic. I'll post a proper list tomorrow so I don't leave something out. As Lou mentioned, it is not difficult to set up macros and it is also well documented thanks to Lou. :-) You will need the color separation module in order to automatically generate 4 color separation for output to your DJc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 299 Tue Jan 28, 1992 R.NOAK at 23:17 EST Dorothy, Glad I could help. Realm, Vector fonts need hinting because, even though the computer tells the printer, "Draw a line from here to there", the printer has to print that line using "dots" (300 _D_ots _P_er _I_nch). Hinting means that the printer uses, for example, fewer dots on a thin line (say a serif) than it would on a thick line. Hinting really helps on a laser printer. That's why Adobe ended up opening their font format to the world. Everyong wanted hinting and it looked, for a time, as if Apple's True Type format would supplant Postscript. Of course that didn't happen. Postscript remains _the_ standard, so much so that Apple will include Adobe Type manager in a future version of the Mac OS. Now that hinting is available with Compugraphic fonts, it's too bad that Calamus SL fonts remain un-hinted, but, as far as I know, no DTP program for Atari uses hinted fonts. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything. Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 302 Wed Jan 29, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 00:41 EST Thanks Randy, I figured it had something to do with the bitimage part. I was thinking along the lines of Calamus correcting the fonts during the conversion. I guess the corrections would be based on each individual font thus the hinting. I'm a little slow sometimes.:-) Casmock, The upgrade is $200 for SL, well worth it! Theres a file in the library that includes the upgrade information along with a demo of SL. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 303 Wed Jan 29, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 02:33 EST CASMOCK -- Don't worry about having just paid for 1.09N. In fact, it seems that anyone wanting Calamus SL _SHOULD_ buy 1.09N just to be able to take advantage of the super upgrade offer. You could buy 1.09N direct from ISD at retail, then pay the $200 to upgarde and STILL be paying about what you'd expect if you bought SL via mail-order later on. And on top of that you get the additional modules _AND_ the 2 fonts families. Of course, Nathan might be planning an introductory offer for new buyers. But I really doubt that you could have done any better by buying SL to begin with. -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 304 Wed Jan 29, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 06:54 EST Hey Joey, that's sharp! I used to use either MONSTER or BIGSCREEN to not only get 640x400 in mono on the SM124, but 1280x960 and a simulated single-page (1280x640?) virtual screen. It was a great way to 'proof' a page in Calamus. For that matter, ti was a good way to work. Avoided scrolling with its attendant screen redraw waits. Gonna get off now - gotta dig out MONSTER and see how the SL demo looks in color!!! Alas, poor Nathan. I suppose Darlah can do her job from anywhere that's got a phone, but Nathan's got to stand by the SL boxes awaiting delivery of printed pages. On the cutting edge of technology, yet hobbled by dependence on a process as old as Gutenberg! Dorothy: Hinting was not the issue/problem with the old DMC fonts. Quality of drawing was. They were apparently done in-house by DMC rather than by professionals. I wonder about this 'hinting' business. With my DeskJet Plus, I don't seem to have the described small point size failure to print serifs and thin lines. Maybe its because the DeskJet's dot size is larger than a laser's. I do find the DJ's printing at small point sizes to look more pleasing than what I've seen from a laser printer. (that's offset by raster areas printing so much darker than the selected percentage would indicate) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 306 Wed Jan 29, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:36 EST CASMOCK...as had been pointed out, you do much better right now upgrading from 1.09N than if you'd bought SL outright. Please send in your registration card and as was pointed out, there is a file in the library containing the upgrade information. Dorothy...as Mike pointed out and as you've noticed yourself, much of this is "in the eye of the beholder". I don't disagree that hinting helps at lower resolutions on lower point sizes but I do disagree that it is the be all to end all, about the same feelings that I have over the entire PostScript issue as Randy knows. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 307 Wed Jan 29, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 17:29 EST A Histogram by Mario Georgiou and Nathan Potechin A Histogram is basically a map of the colour usage ie; intensity or contrast in any given image. This is precisely described in Chapter 5.5.2.18 (monochrome) 5.5.2.19 (colour) in the new Calamus SL manual that I have and you don't. :-) How precise shall I be Mike? I can expand on this if you'd like. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 308 Wed Jan 29, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:12 EST GEnie Livewire mag for January makes a big deal of all the GIF files available. Will SL import these? Hoo boy. Now it's time to learn what all those graphics formats are, what's in color and what's not, learn color printing terminology.. You're not just a product, Nathan, you're a form of higher education! Learn, learn, learn. Lou, the macro or key binding method sounds real easy to set up. I'd downloaded the transcript, but haven't seriously played with the demo until just recently ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 309 Wed Jan 29, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:37 EST Thanks for the histogram definition, Nathan. NO, no... that's all I need to know for now. I didn't bother to look the word up in a dictionary, figuring that wouldn't give me a meaning that fit computer usage. I PROMISE I'll read the manualthis time around! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 310 Wed Jan 29, 1992 G.T.GRAY [Gary Gray] at 19:11 EST Darlah and Nathan keep in mind that the Matrix card for the VME busses on the TT/MegaSTE require FSM or AMCGDOS to be present. Incompatiblities with GDOS seem pretty farfectched under the circumstances??? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 311 Wed Jan 29, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 20:43 EST I am very glad that full color support for DTP is now ready for all ATARI users. The histogram makes color corrections, before output, very easy to do. Nathan could you give us more information. Are we importing Color images and using the Histogram to get the best output for that image? How far can we control the image colors, and other things.? Gary Gray. Maybe Matrix should make some corrections and have it not be FSM require. Ringo. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 312 Wed Jan 29, 1992 S.WILLHITE2 at 21:45 EST Okay, call me a "Stick-In-The-Mud" ... call me "cheap" .... call me a jerk for looking a gift horse in the mouth, but, Nathan, you have to understand, I am broke (read that BROKE) and see little opporotunity to upgrade to a TT in the immediate future. I LOVE Calamus and swear by it religiously (are my commission checks for the sales I've sent you in the mail?),but $200 is a chunk of change right now. So with that established, let me pose just a few more questions. 1. How long will registered users have to upgrade at the $200 price? 2. Looking in your crystal ball, can you say approximately WHEN the "S" issue will be decided as an option or discarded as a non-product? 3. Operating on an monochrome ST system with 4-meg, will I functionally benefit from SL, or will I be buy for the future (hoping to utilize the impressive list of color capabilities at some point in the future)? 4. In the SCTV skits on "Great White North", what IS the full definition of a "hoser"? Help me, Nathan .... I'm so confused ... and BROKE! /*? /save ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 315 Thu Jan 30, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:16 EST You can always get an AlberTT or CrazyDots board, and leave Matrix to the GDOS'rs. You'd of thought DMC would have a handle on the Matrix situation, since there are about 5,000 hard core DTP'rs in Germany using Matrix hardware. Maybe you could test SL and the Matrix using AMCGDOS to see if that behaves? I had no trouble using the C110 board without any GDOS installed, with SL.... 256 colors at 1280x960 was real purty ;-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 316 Thu Jan 30, 1992 R.NOAK at 01:06 EST Nathan, Postscript might not be "the be all to end all", (though most outside the Atari community seem to feel it is...)but it's inclusion in Calamus SL would certainly do much to remove the biggest obstacle to Calamus' acceptance in the wide (outside of the Atari community) world of DTP (which is something we all desire...right?). As an aside, I sure hope the FSM GDOS problems are resolved before SL ships. I keep FSM loaded at all times since I go back and forth between programs. To have to re-boot each time would really cut into my productivity. It's not like FSM is some weird auto program that makes strange calls. It's an official Atari program and, IMHO, all programs should be made to work with it loaded. Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 317 Thu Jan 30, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 01:11 EST S.WILLHITE2, Don't look at it as a $200 upgrade. If S was going to cost you $70 for something less, then this is actually only a $130 for the full package. 365 days in a year thats only $.35 a day, plus your still under the basic price of those other platform 'real' DTP packages. If your going to be broke might as well be happy about it. This is the sort of logic that really keeps you in debt.:-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 318 Thu Jan 30, 1992 CHERRY.FONTS [Todd] at 04:13 EST Randy Noak, I disagree. The reason the fonts that came with 1.09N looked "less than perfect" to the trained eye (myself included) is only partially because of the lack of hints. These were just not professionally drawn fonts. Suitable for most correspondence but that's about it. They were NOT the CompuGraphic fonts that SL is shipping with. CG Times and Triumvirate are very high quality fonts. Nobody will be disappointed in the print quality of these fonts. I doubt the CG fonts that come with SL will be hinted though (unfortunately.) Because of the lack of hints, they'll still print with uneven stems and quite a bit bolder than they should look, but the foundation artwork will be of exceptional quality. If you're going to Lino, they will be fine for almost anything. Indeed, they are the quality I strive for in my own products (given the limitation the lack of hinting imposes.) Dorothy, Calamus SL will require a new hinting format (probably) so you can't just buy any hinted font (such as a type-1). ..Todd Cherry Fonts ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 319 Thu Jan 30, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 04:48 EST Nathan, I have Outline Art and Calamus 1.09n I plan on upgrading to SL. It appears the Vector Line Art Module may be a Outline Art Module. If so is there an upgrade path from Outline Art. If the Module is not a duplicate of Outline Art, could you give a brief outline of the differences? Will there be a Module in the future to replace Outline Art? Thanks, >> Joe Meehan << PS if you have already covered this sorry, I must have missed it. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 320 Thu Jan 30, 1992 CHAZ at 05:14 EST Dorothy - "Looking Good in Print" is one of the excellent DTP books from Ventana Press. Easy, informative reading with lots of pictures. "The Makeover Book" is another valuable one, a good supplement to the one you already have. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 321 Thu Jan 30, 1992 CHERRY.FONTS [Todd] at 05:23 EST Nathan, I'll agree that hinting is "in the eye of the beholder" but to ALL professional designers, it's VERY important. When a professional designer composes a page. Whether it's all text, or a mixture of text and graphics, one of the most important attributes that page has is its "colour". The colour is of course the grey that a block of text looks like at a distance. Correctly proofing such a page is virtually impossible unless the fonts are hinted. The unhinted text prints MUCH too heavy at 300 DPI and really causes some unexpected results when the final page returns from the colour proofers or the service bureau. The unhinted text has much too dark of a "colour." The smaller the type size, the greater the distortion and the greater the difference between the laser proof and the final output. But then, I'm sure you knew all that. I just feel compelled to voice my opinions and concerns regarding hinting. In the eye of this beholder, it's extremely important. ..Todd Cherry Fonts for Calamus (now represented by CodeHead Software.) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 322 Thu Jan 30, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 10:32 EST Mike...YES, We definitely import GIF. For your information, their are certainly file formats that allow a greater degree of information to be contined within them like TIFF resulting in a higher quality image. We also import TIFF. My apologies Gary. Calamus SL definitely works with the Matrix Card. I don't know how I left an impression it did not. I have used the Matrix card, cursing and swearing all the way as I was forced to install FSMGDOS which I do NOT use :-) but I did install it and use the Matrix card at both Seybold and Comdex. Calamus SL will NOT use FSMGDOS fonts, at least not at this time. I suppose anythings possible though. (sigh) Ringo...more or less correct. Calamus SL has the Raster Generator Module included with SL to handle fairly sophisticated control ove the screen display using a Histogram etc.. while the Color Separation Module does the same and more for output. And I totally agree on the Matirx driver. I was very disappointed that I had to load FSMGDOS just to use the MATRIX card. I hope they eliminate this requirement in the future. Steven...I call you a valued Calamus customer! 1. I will hold the upgrade price for 90 days to avoid the possibility of anyone not having a chance to upgrade. Then I will have to adjust the prices to prevent people from purchasing 1.09N and upgrading rather than buying SL at the outset. 2. At this time I have been unable to resolve the "S" issue. I am not confident that there will ever be an S version at this point as we had originally understood it to be. As soon as I have concrete information on this issue I will post it immediately. For now I am saying that there exists a very real possibility that there will not be an S version. By the way, some customers were given a $20.00 discount against their upgrade price to Calamus S from 1.09N when they purchased 1.09N at a show a while ago. It was a special show promo. I wil certainly honor that additional $20.00 discount against SL instead. 3. I am currently using a Mega4 STe while Jim installs a brand new TURBO 030 in my Mega ST4. The answer is yes, you can certainly use the entire program, obviously not as quickly as you would if you had a T25, or whatever but certainly usable. Performing 4 color separations will slow you down and I do recommend that you use the fastest machine you can afford only because you will get more done in less time. So no, it is not an investment for the future. You will be able to use it NOW! 4. A "Hoser" is someone known to drink straight from the keg. :-) Randy...I agree that the big wide outside world mostly all use PostScript. And with the pending release of the Dataformer Module this issue will finally be put to rest. However, it will not change the acceptance of Atari one iota as you will just be bringing in another PostScript disk to the bureau which couldn't care less on which machine or in which program it was created as long is it loads and outputs from their equipment without to much hassle matching fonts that are almost the same betwixt + between programs. (sigh) That said, you are correct it that in will certainly make it easier for someone that requires PostScript to justify their Atari purchase which is definitely something we all desire. You keep GDOS loaded at all times? How much memory does that tie up for you Randy? And if I may be so bold, are you saying that because Atari has now almost, nearly, any day now releasing FSMGDOS that programs that have been written, developed and enhanced for 6 years already should immediately rip out the guts of their program to use FSMGDOS? I say to you "WHERE was FSMGDOS 6 years ago??!!" I like Joey's logic. :-) Thanks for the posts Todd. Well said. Yup, this is a repeat Joe. :-) Time we got part of this file into the library methinks. :-) There will be an Outline Art 2.0. The Vector Graphic Editor is a natural match for Outline Art but is certainly NOT its replacement. Create in Outline Art, then import your CVG into Calamus SL and use the Vector Graphic Editor to make final touches and changes in your layout. Use the Editor to create irregular shapes and flow text within them or without while defining the offset. Use the Editor within Calamus SL. By the way, make no mistake, once PostScript is available for Calamus SL, "hinting" moves from second to the TOP of my list. I will have some definitive information on that subject in the near future. Todd and I have had this discussion a few times. :-) Hmmm, I got off easy today, I only required 90 lines to answer the posts since last night. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 323 Thu Jan 30, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 13:32 EST Then there are folks like me that tend to avoid GDOS/FSMGDOS if they possibly can. I would rather not have to mess with it unless I have to. I remember Lloyd discussing the confusion about GDOS eons ago. The sad part is I still think that confusion exists. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 324 Thu Jan 30, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 18:52 EST I don't use GDOS any more, for anything. I just sold everything that used it. Actually when SL came out I couldn't see any need for having GDOS dependent software. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 327 Fri Jan 31, 1992 R.NOAK at 07:58 EST Nathan, Since I have an 8 meg TT, I'm not too concerned about the small amount of memory (relatively) that FSM GDOS uses. But I just checked, and I have, with all auto programs and DA's loaded, 3 megs of TT ram free and 3.3megs of ST ram free, for a total of 6.3 megs free. I haven't run out of ram yet, even with very memory intensive postscript files. Rest assured that FSM GDOS _will_ be released. Soon. It is very stable and solid and doesn't require the use of _any_ swear words for installation. ;-) So, since you ask, "WHERE was FSMGDOS 6 years ago??!!" . Of course it wasn't here, but it _will_ be here in the future. With the upcoming multi-tasking TOS, it will be very important for all programs to be FSM GDOS "friendly". You ask if you should "rip the guts" out of Calamus. Would it really take "ripping the guts" out of SL to get it to run with FSM GDOS installed? I could understand major problems if Calamus switched to using FSM GDOS fonts, but not just peacefully co-existing. Nathan, I hope you take all my comments in the spirit they are intended: constructive comments aimed at improving sales of Calamus and Atari computers. I was the culprit that started the grousing about Avant Vector not having EPS output in the mid-range version, and I think they will sell more copies with EPS export than if it would have been left out as originally intended. Hopefully, my carping and complaing here will result in improvements that increase SL sales as well. Todd, You say with disagree with me about the importance of hinting in one post and then tell Nathan how important hinting is in another. If you don't mind my asking, which is it? IMHO, lack of hinting jumps off the page to my eye. It is important, and I'm happy that Nathan will be pushing for it (hinting). Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 328 Fri Jan 31, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:18 EST Steve...:-) The manuals did not arrive yesterday so the Printer and I had a wee little chat. 100 manuals will be in today, 500 Monday and the balance by Wednesday next week. On Monday I should be receiving a brand new Master of SL in English. I am waiting for it Jeff for obvious reasons. Then I start shipping. There is quite a bit of work involved now, preparing an upgrade because of the fonts and various module configurations. It will probably take us weeks just to fill the back orders at this point but they will start\ shipping by Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest. Oh yes, Jeff, your order will leave here as one of the very first and thats a promise. :-) Randy...I appreciate the comments, always. Unfortunately, most of my customers do not have your hardware configuration. Tying up 1.7 meg of RAM before you even load a program in is definitely scary to me. I can imagine those with 1 and 2 Meg machines just ran screaming from the room. :-) Reading your comments on FSMGDOS, I am trying to understand why you are such an evangelist in this regard. We have had FSMGDOS around and about here for quite some time. We are certainly familiar with both its strengths and weaknesses. You left out another S word that goes along with stable and solid...slow. Regardless, this is a discussion that I will undoubtebly have with Atari themselves. I thought I made it clear that Calamus SL does indeed run with FSMGDOS installed. It simply ignores it though for the most part as it doesn't need it. Actually using FSMGDOS instead of its own page description language would require a few more hours of tweaking on Atari's part yet. :-) Randy, are you a registered Atari Developer? I am asking because of your comment re: multi-tasking TOS and FSMGDOS friendly. What do you know about these things? Any information that I have would certainly be covered under non- disclosure so I am most curious as to your source of information. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 332 Fri Jan 31, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 22:42 EST Cliff, you have the same configuration I use for the full SL version. However, I would STRONGLY recommend that you consider a speedboard...preferably Fast Technology's T25. There is a promotion mentioned in Nathan's newsletter. Last week's ZNET contains a post I made about the speed advantage with a T25. You could probably live without it...until you get one! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 333 Fri Jan 31, 1992 CHERRY.FONTS [Todd] at 23:04 EST Randy, you misinterpreted me. I didn't disagree with you about hinting at all. What I said was that the 1.09N fonts biggest problems were not as much a hinting problem as a poor design problem. I've been on Nathan's case about hinting since Calamus was released. (Just ask him.) Please excuse my vague posts. ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 335 Sat Feb 01, 1992 R.NOAK at 02:49 EST Nathan, The 1.7 megs is with FSM GDOS _and_ a multitude of DA's and Auto programs. All those with 1 and 2 meg machine can rest easy. FSM GDOS by itself does not require 1.7 megs. FSM GDOS doesn't have to be slow. Most of the programs that I use it with haven't been optimized for FSM GDOS yet. I imagine that, when they are tweaked, they will exhibit respectable speed. I thought that someone here said that Calamus SL and FSM GDOS didn't get along. If you say they do...OK. As far as being a registered Atari developer, no. Any info that I have is not info, just a guess. I would guess that, for example, if one program that uses FSM GDOS is running along with one that doesn't, FSM GDOS would have to be resident for the program that required it. To me, that's common sense, but maybe my guess is wrong. We'll find out. I do wish that you'd stop accusing me of leaking info though. All I did was use a little common sense. If I did really know anything of importance, I would never, ever mention it on a national (or local) network. In fact, I would never mention it to anyone. I have too much respect for my friends to betray a trust. Todd, OK, I misunderstood what you were disagreeing with me about. You're right. Why didn't Nathan have you design the fonts? Your stuff looks _good_. Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 336 Sat Feb 01, 1992 CHAZ at 03:19 EST Will SL support the MiGraph hand scanner or will it be an add-on module later? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 338 Sat Feb 01, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 11:15 EST Sam, Good news. You can UPGRADE to SL from 1.09n for only $200.00. The difference between the $200.00 and the outright cost of SL is a great deal more than what you could get for your 1.09. I hope you understand that upgrading means you still only own one copy of the program. Your original copy has been upgraded, not replaced. That means even if you have all the disks and documents from the origional version, you have no right to sell it, unless the copyright holder is really offering not an upgrade, but a special discount for prior or current owners. I am sure ISD will answer your question telling us what their policy is in this mater. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 339 Sat Feb 01, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 11:47 EST Jeff...Monday my Mega ST4 with Jim Allen's TURBO 030 board installed running at 40 Mhz will be back in its accustomed place. :-) Jim's accelerators, whether its one of the new T25's or TURBO 030's are real easy to justify if you are working on your ST all day long. Real easy. :-) I look forward to receiving your order Clifford. Say hi to every one else in Asheville and make sure they upgrade NOW!! :-) Thanks for the offer Ringo. I appreciate the thought. :-) Gunner...if I ever get down to Hawaii, I'd certainly not pass up a chance to drop in and meet everyone at ACE-HI, promise. Sadly though, a trip to Hawaii is not yet on my list. What we need is a major Atari show there. Yes, that's the ticket. Chaz...that will depend on Migraph. Once SL is out and the module information becomes available, I will certainly approach Kevin and ask him. Joe said it well Sam. A new copy of SL is US $795.00, substantially more than the upgrade cost of $200.00. It is an upgrade price to registered Calamus owners. That price was not designed for you to sell 1.09N to get it. (sigh) This aspect never even occured to me before. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 341 Sun Feb 02, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 00:52 EST Rub it in, Nathan! I just have the 16 mhz AdSpeed in a 1040 STe. I got it in October when the FAST stuff wasn't yet ready for the STe. I wonder if Jim is planning anything with an 030 for the 1040 Ste... that would be REAL easy to justify. Is there enough of a difference between 16mhz & 25mhz when running SL to justify the change? My plan right now is to keep my hardware as it is and save my pennies for a TT in the near future. I'd like to have two systems laying around just for fun. :^) Jeff @ Diadem Page Design ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 342 Sun Feb 02, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 10:34 EST I don't know the answer to that one Jeff. Perhaps Jim does? Jim? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 343 Sun Feb 02, 1992 R.DEAN3 [GUNNER] at 13:09 EST Nathan... Luckily I'm not in Hawaii (as I think you know). I escaped to Las Vegas where I intend to remain. Thanks for the infor in E-Mail about Fontverter vice Font Editor, nice to deal with honest folks that don't just send you whatever they can wether it fits your needs or not. I've decided to go ahead and order the SL upgrade now, see ya in E-Mail. Gunner ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 344 Sun Feb 02, 1992 ATARIUSER [John King T.] at 13:28 EST Nathan, Many people may find this hard to believe but these days I am more interested in what will be in my mail box than in my refrigerator. JKT ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 345 Sun Feb 02, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 13:30 EST ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 346 Sun Feb 02, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 13:50 EST In that case John, with your best interests at heart, I am moving your order to the bottom of the pile. Now stay away from the fridge until SL arrives as you have clearly promised to do in your post. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 347 Sun Feb 02, 1992 M.ABDULKAREE [ASX] at 19:16 EST I've recently purchased the TT and was not too unhappy to find that in TT medium the screen is justifiably "fast". The colors are great, well I am using the NEC 5FG, and if the release is faster.. YIPPEE! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 348 Sun Feb 02, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 21:51 EST ASX...the release is definitely faster. Now about that NEC 5FG, I think you need to lend it to me for testing. :-) Yes, testing, for a month or two. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 351 Tue Feb 04, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 07:13 EST I got the update offering SL today in the mail. It was almost as exciting as when the availability of Genie satin jackets was announced. '> Is there a list of drivers that are shipping with it? Printers. Scanners. By the way, QuarkXpress is cheaper than SL and it comes with color sep ability and all the stuff that SL does. Any word on that? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 352 Tue Feb 04, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:27 EST J.COOPER21...The retail price of Calamus SL is exactly the same as that of Quark. I will release a list of drivers in a few days as soon as I get a chance to. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 353 Tue Feb 04, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:56 EST Wotta week this'll be if it sees both Gadgets's -030 and Calamus shipping! I hope Nathan's relative absence here indicates that ISD's busy assembling SL packages for end of week shipping. Comment to Lou Rocha: When Calamus was first released, its 'icon forest' interface was a daunting departure from the programs we'd become used to. Now it appears that most of the high-end ST/TT programs have gone that route. And if the SL manual follows the style of the 'Guide to Calamus DTP', that'll help a lot. Having experienced both the 'icon forest' style and the 'nested menu' style now, I prefer the icon forest. The nested menu where you drop down a menu, then have to slide the cursor off to the side of your choice to make a submenu choice - a pain for clumsy oafs like me! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 354 Tue Feb 04, 1992 R.SHUSTERJR2 [Bob] at 19:28 EST Does the new Calamus support output to a Postscript file? I have access to many local service bureaus which use Macs and IBMs. They look at me like I have a third eye when I say "Calamus", then they say - "Well, just dump out the Postscipt file to disk, then we can do whatever you want with it!" I blush and say Calamus has no postscript option. Please tell me that's no longer true. - Bob Shuster ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 355 Tue Feb 04, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 20:16 EST Bob, The Dataformer module for SL is supposed to provide PostScript and/or EPS output. The module is not ready yet, but is supposed to be ready in 60 days or so. (I _THINK_ all that is pretty close to what I've read here.) As for me .... the Dataformer module will remove a major stumbling block between me and "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"!! :-) -- Harry No ... I meant I'll be able to rent a TV. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 356 Tue Feb 04, 1992 V.HUTZ at 23:43 EST Nathan, a point of interrest which needs clarification--to at least me-- If on your 2 for 1 or buy one get one free sale of fonts; we wish to purchase ITC Garamond at $299.95 can we get more than one additional free font as long as they don't add up to more than $299.95? And a point of interrest--probably to only me--does ITC Garamond include the Garamond families ($149.95)? Or is it enough of a difference to be worth considering?....(I have this Garamond fetish...don't look) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 357 Wed Feb 05, 1992 S.RAMIREZ at 01:27 EST Nathan...(and others). Thanks for clearing up my question about the legality of selling Calamus v1.09N to raise funds for SL. The last thing I would want to do is to hurt an ST developer. What will be the cut-off date for the $200.00 upgrade (exact!). I gotta raise funds for this one way or the other (am I hooked or what?). One other way I could do this is to sell my current version Outline-Art (that is legally ownership of my copy). How could I transfer the registration to the new owner? Also, will SL assume some of the features of O-Line Art , such as projecting text onto a defined path and all the other neat-o things that O-Line can do with text? I haven't used Outline as much as I had expected and the use I have gotten out of it has been mostly with text effects. Will I be able to do some of this with the standard (out of the box) SL upgrade? Since I am relatively new to GEnie, my questions might have already been answered so please forgive me. If this is the case, please direct me to the proper topic area. I know most of you are saying that if I use Calamus in a business then I can't afford to do without it. But, the majority of DTP work I do is volunteer work for my church. I have done some commercial work but not enough to offset the cost. That is due to the fact that I am heavily involved with my Church's projects. Sam ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 358 Wed Feb 05, 1992 J.SIMS5 [Jeff Sims] at 02:36 EST Sam, I'll let Nathan or somebody else deal with your first questions, but about whether to upgrade to SL... Doing volunteer work for my church was the same way that I got into using Calamus professionally. I DO make money with Calamus now, but even if I didn't I would still want the upgrade. I still do tons of stuff for my church and I find it to be the most challanging & rewarding of any of my projects. There are very few places that need the communication tools that SL can offer as much as a church. Didn't God choose to reveal His plan to you on a PRINTED PAGE? ;^) The written word is powerful & SL will prove to be a valuable asset to your work -- volunteer or otherwise. Things I'm looking forward to the most: AUTO-TRACING A "REAL" WORD PROCESSOR INSIDE CALAMUS DEFINABLE TEXT FLOW AUTOMATIC TILING NEAR-FUTURE POSTSCRIPT COMPATIBILITY 600 PAGE "REAL" MANUAL :^) The FREE TT030 included with... (OOPS, that was a dream!) ;^) And on & on & on... Upgrade! You won't be sorry! Jeff @ Diadem Page Design PS Nathan, send me a couple free typefaces for this free promotion? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 359 Wed Feb 05, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:07 EST Mike...Please do not forget Jim Allen's TURBO 030. We are all lucky in that we have TWO excellent 030 boards as options. I can only agree on the "nested icon" concept but then I'm biased :-) Bob...as Harry mentioned, give me 60 days for the release of the Dataformer module which converts CVG's, CDK's, pages or whatever to EPS or PostScript. V.HUTZ...You are correct. I will provide EQUAL VALUE! Order away. S.RAMIREZ...Let me re-state this. Your original question caught me by surprise. You purchased the right to use Calamus. I want everyone to upgrade to Calamus SL. Once you have SL, in my opinion, you wil probably continue to use 1.09N which remains an excellent program, for many of your simple jobs. If this is not the case, then I really cannot have an objection to you sharing the beauty of 1.09N with someone else. :-) In order for them to register any program previously registered, the best way would be to send in the disks or a photocopy of those original disks with the serial number and we will adjust our records accordingly. Jeff...this is getting to be a habit. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 360 Wed Feb 05, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 08:56 EST Sam/Jeff -- I'm just picking up my church's weekly bulletin/mailout. I'm REALLY looking forward to postscript compatibility so I'll be able to transition to Calamus with that work. But for now I'm forced into using their 386/PageMaker setup just so we can get high-rez output locally. The WEEKLY deadline is already very tight. I can't imagine trying to work in a modem transmission to Canada and overnight return every week. That weekly stuff is pretty tight timewise -- but very nice for paying the bills. ;-) Hurrah! for PS compatibility. (The pressure builds ...) -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 361 Wed Feb 05, 1992 NEVIN-S at 13:39 EST Nathan, if the DataFormer will convert CVG's to EPS files, please see if the programmers can make the EPS files Illustrator compatible. This is very easy to do (the file structure is only a tiny bit different) and will really assist those of us who own SL and PGS. The Illustrator format is available free of charge from Adobe. --Nevin ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 362 Wed Feb 05, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 20:05 EST Ah Nathan, I wasn't slighting Jim - he told me he's been shipping production boards. And we are very fortunate for such a (relatively) small contingent of users that we have Dave and Jim... and you and Softlogic... Johnson/Eidsvoog... Gribnif... and Aladdin to make using GEnie a pleasure instead of a chore. Choices - and really good ones. And to have the German contingent which really has developed the future of Atari's computers while we were using the machines for games and light-duty applications. Calamus's copyright reads, '1987'! It's just that SL (out of Calamus 1.1) and Dave's SST have had the longest gestation periods of any ST products I can remember. Sorta like Elephant pregnancies. Have to admit, neither was as bad as waiting for Microsoft to produce a usable 'Windows' would have been! Ship, Ship, Ship! I'm boring even myself writing this commentary. I can't wait to feel useful again - asking utterly idiotic questions about SL that page xxx of the manual quite clearly explains. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 364 Thu Feb 06, 1992 D.HEINE1 at 01:43 EST So you think it has been a long wait for the SL version? Well, I just came across a note from someone who seems to have been waiting since around 630 B.C.! Let me quote him-- "What do I care about incense from Sheba or sweet calamus from a distant land?" Jeremiah 6:20 (NIV) It seems he had given up hope in ever seeing the "sweet" SL version! ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 368 Thu Feb 06, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 07:56 EST David...the abcdefghi to which you refer was quickly and easily done in Outline Art. D.HEINE1...am I ever glad I do not deposit a customers money until I ship. Can you imagine the interest on that one? :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 369 Thu Feb 06, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 21:01 EST Mike Vakent, I am glad you like the icon forest. I hope you will like the map of that forest that I am going to develop! Bob Shuster, I have seen EPS files that were converted from Calamus pages using Dataformer and printed in Postscript using Ultrascript. Let me just say that there is a noticeable difference. BTW, Dataformer will create EPS files for either individual frames or for whole pages. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 370 Thu Feb 06, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 21:22 EST What is the story now on Ultrascript? How can it be obtained, and will there be someway to get it from ISD with the Dataformer module? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 372 Thu Feb 06, 1992 D.NICOLAU at 22:49 EST Nathan, I was wondering if Calamus SL would do something like you did with Outline Art. Starting a word with a 6pt. letter going up to 20pt. at the end of the word. Or something like that. But without having to change the point size of each letter. David ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 373 Fri Feb 07, 1992 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:24 EST Lou, What do you mean by "a noticable differance" using Ultrascript? Does it help the verticals in small pointsizes? Awhile back, I had heard that Imagen (I think) was going to update and reissue Ultrascript. Anyone heard anything? Doug @ Interface ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 374 Fri Feb 07, 1992 S.SANDERS2 [SDS] at 01:49 EST Nathan, I noticed an option in the SL demo that I'm curious if it's what I think it is. Basically I'd love an option that let's be specify a tab character so that I'd get automatic output like this for ex.: Chapter 1........................................................1 Chapter 2.......................................................17 . . . Anyway, I found a box which lets me configure the tab but it lets me put in several characters, am I on the right track. -Scott @ SDS ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 375 Fri Feb 07, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 08:26 EST Dataformer was NOT developed to be used with Ultrascript. :-) If you have an SLM804 or 605, just output direct! Bill...Things ALMOST went exactly as planned. :-) We started shipping yesterday in fact BUT this takes time. Because of the fonts and previous serialized versions, each upgrade must be done INDIVIDUALLY! (sigh) :-) Mario brought home a shipping version last two nights ago to test on his 8 Mhz Mega ST4. He came in yesterday smiling stating that the performance of SL, even on his Mega ST4 was certainly acceptable and definitely useable. David...not as a single step but certainly it can be done. Scott...YES, Leader Tabs are now a feature of Calamus SL however, they are not yet activated. This was one of those features that I wish was now working but was not going to delay release until... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 377 Fri Feb 07, 1992 R.SHUSTERJR2 [Bob] at 20:52 EST So what is this DataFormer? If it's a planned (or current) Calamus SL module, it's not mentioned in their recent mailing to Calamus 1.09N owners (at least I don't see it as I look at the brochure in front of me!) How much is it and where is it available? Also, whoever mentioned the PS module, any ideas how much that would be? I really just need to layout my document with Calamus, then save as a PS file to take to my local print shop to use on their Mac setup - I really would have no need for Ultrascript. Alternately, perhaps there is a program for Mac or IBM that would convert a GEM file to Postscript - that would work for me as well. Anyone know of such a puppy? - Bob Shuster ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 379 Fri Feb 07, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 21:12 EST Jim, I'm pretty sure you can still get it from distributors or Atari (part number TP8803). You can also try Ghostscript available here. Goldleaf's COMPOScript will also be an alternative. Steve Nathan, how are you shipping to the US? SG ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 380 Fri Feb 07, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou Rocha] at 21:50 EST Doug, the EPS file I saw was a graphic. The noticeable difference was a more pleasing raster (IMHO) and outlining of the graphic. I haven't seen text in a file converted to EPS using DATAFORMER. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 382 Fri Feb 07, 1992 REALM [Joey] at 22:56 EST Bob, I think Dataformer is mentioned down in one of the corners of the brochure sayng it will be released in about 60 days. It's the module that should output PS for you. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 386 Sat Feb 08, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 09:24 EST Nathan... What, you let Mario go home at night at a time like this? And what are you doing sneaking off to GEnie? Back to the duplicator, the order list and the yet unfilled boxes, you inkstained wretches! Will the manual contain an errata listing? I would assume that features such as the leader tabs you mentioned are decribed in the manual even if they're disabled in the initial version. What shipping method will you be using for the USA upgrades - postal or UPS? We'll need to know who to pester next week. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 391 Sun Feb 09, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 02:11 EST Doug, I think Nathan was saying that if you're using an SLM, you should get as good a print (or better) by printing directly from Calamus. That's why there'd be no need for UltraScript. (I could easily be wrong, though.) -- Harry ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 394 Mon Feb 10, 1992 S.RAMIREZ at 05:36 EST Nathan...(and others). Thanks for clearing up my question about the legality of selling Calamus v1.09N to raise funds for SL. The last thing I would want to do is to hurt an ST developer. What will be the cut-off date for the $200.00 upgrade (exact!). I gotta raise funds for this one way or the other (am I hooked or what?). One other way I could do this is to sell my current version Outline-Art (that is legally ownership of my copy). How could I transfer the registration to the new owner? Also, will SL assume some of the features of O-Line Art , such as projecting text onto a defined path and all the other neat-o things that O-Line can do with text? I haven't used Outline as much as I had expected and the use I have gotten out of it has been mostly with text effects. Will I be able to do some of this with the standard (out of the box) SL upgrade? Since I am relatively new to GEnie, my questions might have already been answered so please forgive me. If this is the case, please direct me to the proper message. I know most of you are saying that if I use Calamus in a business then I can't afford to do without it. But, the majority of DTP work I do is volunteer work for my church. I have done some commercial work but not enough to offset the cost. That is due to the fact that I am heavily involved with my Church's projects. Sam ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 395 Mon Feb 10, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 10:36 EST Sol.... I don't think so. :-) Bob...Dataformer is the module that you need in order to convert your CDK to PS to bring to your local service bureau. I did NOT discuss it in any detail in the mailout as it is not yet ready. It will be discussed in great detail, next mailout when I will be able to ship it! What Harry said re: Ultrascript is correct. Mike...we would have had your order shipped already but were seriously delayed by all the customers that came walking in our front door with cash in their hand. THEY went to the front of the line. A few of them had literally drivem for two hours to get their upgrade. :-) So all delays will now be blamed on our customers. :-) Errata? In SL? :-) Would you believe that there is NO such file at this time. There should be but I decided not to delay the release while they added one in. We will compile one on the fly with all your assistance. There are features that are inactive in the program itself as they were not yet working correctly but they have been completely described in the manual. We have made a basic assumption that all features will be working in the immediate future. I do NOT use UPS. They charge me $17.50 for paperwork as a minimum charge having nothing to do with shipping, just docs. I also forgot to state a charge for shipping (brilliant) which is a potential problem. The new manual are disks and weighty and costly. (sigh) Drew...the manual was originally translated by the "Guide" people and taken from there. It is MUCH better than the original Calamus manual. I like Mr. Tarpinians suggestion. Please direct all future enquiries to him directly at his office # xxx xxxx :-) Stan...:-) Dean...your order has NOT left yet. Sam..nothing is exact. It is my intention to raise the upgrade charge after a 90 day period has passed. That makes April 30 the last day at the current price. Transferring registration is easy. Simply let me know the new owners name, address etc.. in email. NO, standard SL will not contain the Vector Line Art Editor which does contain some Outline Art features. However, it is NOT designed to replace Outline Art but rather to compliment it. I recommend that you have and use both. I will be happy to help you learn your way around GEnie by the way. Just ask. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 398 Tue Feb 11, 1992 A.HEYDUK1 at 00:32 EST Nathan, I did wonder about the shipping charges when sending my check to you. Whatever the shipping costs are, please let us know ASAP (or send send us invoices, or something), but do not delay filling our orders because of that. P.S. A while ago I said here that I was "defecting" to the PageStream gang, and I did. But who says I cannot have the best of both worlds... ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 399 Tue Feb 11, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 06:49 EST The MSRP of Calamus SL is US $795.00 which includes the Color Separation Module, the Vector Graphic Line Art Module and the Speedline Module....at this time. I will NOT delay shipping through my oversight. However, if you encounter a plea for $10.00 in my next mailout to cover shipping in the last mailout, you'll know why. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 400 Tue Feb 11, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 18:43 EST If you need to add a shipping charge to my upgrade, go ahead and add it to the MasterCard billing. The upgrade charge is very favorable, so I can hardly object to paying for delivery. If airmail would cost less than ten dollars extra, it would be worth it to me to have SL that much sooner. That's assuming that it's possible. Sometime in the next week or so, please do give us a list of "inactive" features. Otherwise I'll blame my tired old mind for failure to get those features to work. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 401 Tue Feb 11, 1992 SGUBER at 20:09 EST Nathan: If you ned to add a chipping cost, you can do so. If I need to add something extra to get to the top of the list, please leave me a message in E- Mail, otherwise everyone will start doing this. :-) Sol ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 403 Tue Feb 11, 1992 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 20:46 EST Shhh, I got the "official" SL. BOY IS IT FAST!!!! I'd say just a smidge, a hair if you will, under 1.09N in mono, and it's got soooo many more features. Way to go. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 405 Tue Feb 11, 1992 R.SHUSTERJR2 [Bob] at 22:01 EST Yep, I was wrong. Dataformer *was* mentioned in the mailout, but that's it - it was merely mentioned. Just the name, that's all. Now I know that it's indeed what I would need to convert to PS. I'm still in the dark as to its projected cost - any ideas? This will most likely determine whether I upgrade or not. - Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 408 Wed Feb 12, 1992 D.SENSUI at 05:33 EST Shucks! I could have had a copy in my hands by now but didn't have enough to cover the cost of shipping Nathan to Hawaii.... :-) Nathan... I've been closely involved in learning a whole lot about color separation work because the newspaper I'm working for is finally making a serious commitment to effective color reproduction (accurate color reproduction isn't really possible in newsprint, but --effective-- reproduction is.) Anyhow, along that line, Is there a way of tailoring the separation generation module for each particular press setup? Different presses have different production requirements depending on the type of inks used, paper used, etc. As Calamus service bureaus are generally remotely located, it would be nice to be able to "zero-in" the computer-generated separations to a particular printing service and be assured that the separations generated on the West Coast works at a particular printing press in Hawaii (provided the computer system was set up right to begin with). Dean. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 409 Wed Feb 12, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:26 EST ISD has added a $10.00 shipping charge where possible. It is an arbitrary figure, which is approximately half of the actual shipping cost. You will understand this better when you receive your PACKAGE! Obviously those that mailed checks have not been charged and just as obviously, I did not hold up delivery due to my own oversight. Kidding aside, I didn't want Jeff walking in the door looking for his SL and yes Jeff, your SL has been shipped!! Cliff, you found the right formula. Thank you for the laugh. Your order has been moved up. :-) Jim...thanks for mentioning that you already have SL and they don't. That's ok. I already have the TURBO 030 running at 40 Mhz and they don't have that either. :-) JKT...Right attitude. :-) It makes me thankful that I have the kind of clientele that I do. Thank you. BOB...The price has not yet been set for Dataformer which is two programs in one; Dataformer-Raster and Dataformer-Vector. The file formats that it will convert already include substantial convenience to everyone. I suspect that it will be $100.00 but this will not been finalized until we are closer to release. I do know that the conversion offered would be worth hundreds on any other platform. It is far more than just a file converter for PostScript. Ken...get that Registration card in, send email if you like and I can get the customer mailout off to you sooner. Dean...true. :-) The answer to your first question is YES. You can create and save various color tables for various applications, customizing your specific requirements. This is the next major concern I need to address. I must do whatever is necessary to make hi-res output available everywhere. As I still feel PostSript is not the solution for Calamus owners but simply a convenience which will be addressed with Dataformer, I now need to get either Ultre Setters or Atari-Linotype or AGFA interfaces available. In the meantime, the closest bureau to you is Omnicomp in San Francisco. They have a first class operation. Stephen Samuels uses them on a regular basis and can be reached here. He might be able to offer some insight. I can also recommend that you acquire something like a HPDJ500C for color proofs. The driver is included. ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 412 Thu Feb 13, 1992 A.VALENT [Mike] at 07:55 EST HPDJ500C driver is included in the package NOW? If so, that'll make Steve G. extremely happy. On the other hand, he'll probably become more impatient and call me every half-hour instead of every hour to see if I've received my copy before before his arrives. Soon now? ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 413 Thu Feb 13, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:54 EST Yes Jim...please share your thoughts on Calamus SL with and without all your accelerators. :-) Randy...I indicated May 1 actually, approximately 90 days from the original launch. I hope that is acceptable. Mike...The HPDJ500C driver is included with every package. Tell Steve that I deliberately left it out of his though. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 415 Thu Feb 13, 1992 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 13:35 EST Well, I'm extremely happy that SL implemented a little something that I'd hoped for. I knew that SL would be infinitely configurable - modules and fonts and style sheets and master pages and drivers and settings and just about everything saved in the new CALAMUS.SET file. It even saves the position of the moveable logo, and toolbox locations. What I didn't know was whether or not you would be able to create a series of CALAMUS.SET files and load SL with different setups to suit your particular needs. Now I know! If you double-click on CALAMUS.PRG, it will load CALAMUS.SET. If, however, you install *.SET as a document type for Calamus along with *.CDK, when you double-click on ANY .SET file, Calamus will use it instead of its default CALAMUS.SET. This is great with Newdesk. I've got three .SET file icons sitting on my desktop, labelled "Minimum", "Standard", and "Full Blown". If I click on any of them, SL launches, using the appropriate .SET file. If I click on a .CDK file, it will load the "Standard" setup, and then load the document. Cool! I can see where this could be handy if one had a TT with a TM195 and a colour board with a VGA monitor hooked up. Run your "Black/White" setup file on the big screen, and your "Colour" setup file on the VGA monitor. I don't know whether this is actually a new feature; it could be that 1.09N had this ability, but since it made little sense to have this feature in 1.09N, I never tried it. Ron Grant ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 422 Fri Feb 14, 1992 R.GRANT11 [Ron @ GXRSYS] at 03:04 EST Jim Allen, no kidding about the speed! I was impressed. I knew they had sped it up over the demo version, but usually, y'know, one has a tendency to take these things with a grain of salt... I swear SL seems to be FASTER than 1.09N; even in colour!! Geez, you just HAVE to check out the macro capabilities; MicroEMACS fans will go nuts! (Yes, you could set the key bindings to emulate ME in PKS Write....) Mike Valent - flattery will get you everywhere! :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 423 Fri Feb 14, 1992 B.ROBINSON5 [BRIANMATE] at 04:12 EST D.HEINE1 Your quote from 630 B.C. mentions "Calamus from a distant land". There are 8 other definitions of Calamus beside the most addicting program ever written for a computer you so aptly called "SWEET SL". CALAMUS. pl. CALAMI (I think I've eaten this.) grin Latin from Greek KALAMOS a stalk, a reed or stubble. Sans KALAMAS a stalk, a reed or stubble. 1. CORUS CALAMUS: A pungent aromatic medicinal root. 2. In the Bible, INDIAN LEMON GRASS. 3. A TROPICAL EAST INDIAN PALM used for canes. 4. The QUILL of a feather. 5. A REED or a CANE. 6. A FLUTE made from a reed. 7. A SPLIT REED, used as an instrument for writing. (Ancient Greece/Rome) 8. An ancient Greek MEASURE OF LENGTH equal to 10 feet. So I guess in the near future there will be added: 9. A DTP PROGRAM written and designed solely for ATARI computers which eventually requires surgery to remove one from the keyboard. Brian Robinson ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 424 Fri Feb 14, 1992 ISD [Nathan] at 09:48 EST Mike...Shawn says your order was shipped yesterday. Save your spare cash for modules rather than nukes. Since my wife has no doubt already read your skirt-chasing crack and ignored it, and Shawn is also happily married, and you really don't know anyone elses name here except Mario who is, in fact, the only single person in the office, you're right. I could have sent Mario down. But I'm not sure even the infamous Ft. Lauderdale would have survived the experience. :-) Ron is my Calamus Guru too. :-) (Now stop asking me stuff Ron!) Hehehehehe Ah Cliff, next time get that upgrade order in FASTER!!!! You are still in the pile. :-) Let me know if the game is any good John. :-) Thanks for the input Jim. Daniel...patience is a virtue and your order is real close to Cliffs. :-) Randy...we have similar tribal customs in Canada around about that time. The new price is not yet available. Thanks for the comments Ron. I think I mentioned the multi-SET file possibilities in here a while back. Start re-reading. :-) Brian...The product was named Calamus because of your number 7 " a SPLIT REED, used as an instrument for writing". However, I will not argue the suitability of number 9. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 426 Fri Feb 14, 1992 H.WOLFE1 at 19:00 EST Nathan and I exchanged a little correspondence in Email and he asked me to post it in the Calamus SL message base, so here it is. And of course, if any other Calamus experts and/or beta testers have any comments, they will be appreciated. Harvey Wolfe ===================================================================== Item 5225399 92/02/14 04:59 From: H.WOLFE1 Harvey A. Wolfe To: ISD Nathan Potechin cc: H.WOLFE1 Harvey A. Wolfe Sub: CALAMUS SL Nathan, since it's now over a week since I left my last message and since I have yet to receive a response, I decided that it was time for a followup. I would appreciate clarification of some matters regarding Calamus SL. 1. Is there any practical way to do double underlines, other than manually drawing the second line, using the line tools. 2. When doing footnotes, is there any way to make the program automatically adjust the frame sizes for the text frame and the footnote frame so that they will each be the appropriate size. Or is it still necessary to guess at their sizes intitially, then resize and move the footnote frame to fit the actual size of the footnotes (and of course, therefore also resize the text frame). Then possibly again resize the footnote frame if another footnote reference has now moved to or from the next page, etc., etc. 3. With the new tab system, can Calamus correctly handle imported tabbed material; for instance, if I have a Wordperfect document with two columns of right tabbed numbers. If this were entered directly into Calamus, each line would be text,tab, space, text, tab. So can Calamus import the Wordperfect document and format it correctly? 4. Can Calamus search and replace tabs and carriage returns? 5. Will Calamus be able to work with Ultrascript in some manner? 6. Has the code in Calamus been optimized for the TT and does it use the math co-processor? 7. Does Calamus have a full indent capability, e.g. in most word processors, I can easily do tab, tab, indent. Thereafter all subsequent lines will start at the indent point. Finally, regarding your messages that you would allow Calamus owners to upgrade to Calamus SL and then sell their old version of Calamus. This didn't make sense to me. However, you did seem to say that. So I phoned Ditek. First the person I spoke to said that was definitely not so; then when I read him the message, he said that you had left another message on GEnie saying that was not the policy. However, I have never seen another message. So I would appreciate knowing exactly what the policy is. Thank you, Harvey Wolfe P.S. If you prefer, I'll be happy to leave this message in the Calamus SL message base. Just leave me a one line note to that effect. =END= Item 6411820 92/02/14 09:10 From: ISD Nathan Potechin To: H.WOLFE1 Harvey A. Wolfe Sub: CALAMUS SL Reply: Item #5225399 from H.WOLFE1 on 92/02/14 at 04:59 Harvey, I apologize. This office is in a turmoil right now as we ship backorders as fast as we can. For future reference, I always prefer questions in the Category rather than here because there is inevitably repeat questions and answers that can be automatically shared if posted in cat 16. This even applies to embarrassing questions. :-) In order: 1. You can now do offset copies, define same and save them as a macro, assigning a key combination to the double underline of your dreams. 2. I believe that frame adjustment remains manual. You can adjust the letters to fit the frame but not vice versa...yet. 3. I am TOLD that they have updated the Word Perfect import driver. I have yet to test it personally. However, it must work correctly so if it is not, I will insure that it gets done! 4. Even the current version of Calamus searchs and replaces TABS and carraige returns Harvey. Try searching for [control I] 5. The Dataformer module of Calamus, not scheduled for release for two months, converts frames, pages or CDK's to PS or EPS. If you then wish to bring this in to Ultrascript, you may do so. 6. Parts of Calamus SL use the math coprocessor but mostly it retains its own special math routines. And yes, it has been and continues to be optimized for the TT. Remember, this is NOT a stagnant program. It will be updated and upgraded constantly! 7. I'm not sure on your question on this one. Using the Paragraph and Line Indents I can do this now if I'm understanding you correctly. 8. My mistake. I was being a nice guy when I made a post I shouldn't have. I have been responding to my post in email to people since it was made. No, Calamus SL is an upgrade to 1.09N. If you then sell it, I have two issues to deal with. First, if CG fonts have been purchased, they are registered to that serial number. As we are issuing the exact same number, selling off 1.09N will really complicate things. Second, 1.09N remains excellent for many job requirements and as the upgrade cost is so favourable, people could obtain 1.09N to obtain SL rather than purchasing SL. Harvey, do me a favour if you don't mind, and post both your questions and my answers in Category 16. I'd appreciate it. I would do it myself but I would never post someone's mail in public without permission. This way everyone can share your questions and my answers. Thanks Regards Nathan =END= ------------ Category 16, Topic 20 Message 432 Sat Feb 15, 1992 R.QUANCE [Rob] at 01:36 EST It's Here.... I finally received Calamus SL today.....Not Bad Guys, great work!!!! The virtual memory is going to take some getting use to, but I can live with it....I don't know when I'm going to find the time to read the manual, it's definitely thicker than the old one....Very thick!!! Everything seems to work fine except for a glitch in Speedline (it won't load) and the features seem endless. Thanks Nathan and everyone at ISD for bring this exceptional product to the light of day, it was truly worth your efforts, I'm really very happy with it. Rob... ------------